I had that set and the 2-6-4 loco is the correct loco and the cars were one red color, not two tone.
Roland
@Don McErlean posted:Well I have quite a long post for today but I hope everyone will enjoy it. While working on an effort to inventory some of my collection, I have been going through some storage boxes that have sat unlooked at since we moved to Texas some 15 years ago. What I found, according to a note I left in the box, was something that I purchased when I was first starting to collect in Dayton, Ohio from a train show in the late 70's. So this item has been moved around the country waiting to be "discovered" again for some 45-50 years!! Anyway I hope you will enjoy this.
This is the outer or set box...it never had a locomotive or tender while I had it, likely missing from the set or perhaps it was not part of the set when purchased new. Note that the label reads "A.C.Gilbert Company, New Haven, Conn" so it post dates Gilbert's acquisition of American Flyer in February 1938 and the move of train production from Chicago to New Haven.
Well that was a long story and I hope you enjoyed it. Now I have to find out what locomotive pulled this set and then find that!! Likely a long process
Best wishes for a great weekend
Don
Don,
Your setbox is clearly stamped 9 for Set 9 of 1938. Set 9 featured a 4615-6 engine, which would be the 2-6-4 pacific type engine similar to the 1939 425 engine, but with decal identification instead of the rubber stamped numbers. See below:
NWL - THANK YOU. I saw the "9" on the box but did not know what it stood for. Now I have a target for which to "hunt". Do you think that the engine and tender might have been originally packed in the same box? Perhaps with only 2 Pullman's and an Obs?
Don
Robert S. Butler : Schuweiler's book lists a variation with 2 tone red enamel but he lists this ONLY for the Pullmans and not the Observation. No other explanation. Given that Flyer was in the process of moving to S scale even though they were maintaining O gauge at this time its possible that the color scheme varied even perhaps to using available stock. Who knows?
Thank you for the catalog picture, that helps. I will now try and find the engine / tender...
Don
@Don McErlean posted:NWL - THANK YOU. I saw the "9" on the box but did not know what it stood for. Now I have a target for which to "hunt". Do you think that the engine and tender might have been originally packed in the same box? Perhaps with only 2 Pullman's and an Obs?
Don
Don,
I would think the catalog artwork and description of having 3 coaches and 1 observation would be correct, especially since you have 4 matching cars with the setbox. I would suspect that the engine and tender would have had individual boxes, similar to the car boxes and everything would have fit into the setbox that you have.
NWL
Roland: Saw your post too late to include your information in the response above. Certainly makes me feel more comfortable that my set 9 does have the correct cars - at least for some production. Again thanks for the information on the engine.
Don
NWL...Yes I fully agree. The catalog picture with 3 Pullmans and the Observation is strong evidence that the set as I have it is correct. I agree that the engine and tender were likely packed in similar component boxes to the cars and included in the same outer "set" box. Makes sense.
Don
Since we have been talking about the red cars and the two-tone versus the single color cars, I thought I should post these cars, which are two-tone red. I have a set of 3 coaches and 1 observation. They are 3176 and 3177 cars, which are unlighted. They also have the "cheap" trucks for lack of a better description, as the trucks are plain, with no journal boxes, and were often used on the champion freight cars and other cheaper cars like the blue streak cars. I am guessing the cars date to 1937.
The difference between the two tones of the paint is relatively minor, but it is there. I am sure that Don's single-tone cars are correct, as the condition of the cars, original decals, original boxes/setbox and the fact that he mentions having the set for 45 years or more, point to the originality of the set.
NWL
NWL - I agree it is the same set. What I can't believe is I missed the number 9 - oh well, mystery solved, and now Don knows what to chase.
Robert / NWL : Thank you both for driving this "one tone/two tone" discussion to a conclusion. You are right...now I know what engine to chase, thanks again. By the way, NWL, I did look up the 3176 / 3177 cars in Schuweiler's book and he does describe the exact configuration you pictured. His date for those cars would seem to be 1937 as you have mentioned. These cars were only available (according to him) in 1931 & 1937 and the configuration you showed is the last one he lists.
Great discussion All
Don
I went looking through my photo archive and found that I have Set No. 5 from 1938.
Northwoods Flyer
1938 Set No. 5
Northwestern Passenger
I took a closer look at the set box and realized that it has a 5 stamped on it.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
Greg @Greg J. Turinetti : You clearly have the 1938 set 5 which compared with my set 9 has 1 fewer Pullman car and a different (apparently smaller) engine. Of course I have no engine at the moment but going by what NWL and Robert have posted my proper engine would be a 2-6-4 as opposed to your 2-4-2. The catalog reads with a description of the 3171 Pullmans as 8 1/4 inches although they are often called 8 1/2 inch cars. You have the single tone red like mine and the "automatic" couplers. Those steel "curl a q's" could couple automatically but not uncouple I don't believe. The force of the cars backing into each other forced the coupler to move to the side and then spring back to couple. The "R" on the box end designates those new for 1938 couplers. Your cars appear identical to mine. It is interesting to note however that the decal reading "American Flyer Lines" that appears over the windows on both our cars does NOT appear in the catalog art.
Thanks for posting Greg
Don
@Don McErlean posted:Greg @Greg J. Turinetti : You clearly have the 1938 set 5 which compared with my set 9 has 1 fewer Pullman car and a different (apparently smaller) engine. Of course I have no engine at the moment but going by what NWL and Robert have posted my proper engine would be a 2-6-4 as opposed to your 2-4-2. The catalog reads with a description of the 3171 Pullmans as 8 1/4 inches although they are often called 8 1/2 inch cars. You have the single tone red like mine and the "automatic" couplers. Those steel "curl a q's" could couple automatically but not uncouple I don't believe. The force of the cars backing into each other forced the coupler to move to the side and then spring back to couple. The "R" on the box end designates those new for 1938 couplers. Your cars appear identical to mine. It is interesting to note however that the decal reading "American Flyer Lines" that appears over the windows on both our cars does NOT appear in the catalog art.
Thanks for posting Greg
Don
Don,
Actually, the R on the box ends denotes the car color (R = Red).
NWL
NWL: OK that would make sense I had simply interpreted the paragraph from my guide book incorrectly. In fact it makes more sense than the coupler and might give some insight into why someone took the time to write "Special Coupler" on one of my component boxes on both the bottom and the end. Thanks
Don
I have dug deep into the bowels to participate in the this part of the thread this week ( no new surprises) 
These are the only AF carriages of this "curly coupler" era that I have , They are rough .... its a long way to get here lol!
( but at least there are representing in the Southern Hemisphere! )
Fatman: As usual a great "add" to our information. Now we know these cars might have been exported and could be international 
! Most interesting is the baggage car, none of the catalog art from the 1938 catalog for either set 5 or set 9 shows a baggage car. I searched my pre-war Flyer O gauge reference book and did find this car. It is listed as an "unnumbered, enameled car " and described and shown exactly as you have pictured it. Especially interesting is that it came with Type XII trucks and the all important Type X coupler (curly q). It was cataloged as the No 234 R Pullman (no number on car) in 1939 but likely would have been available in 1938.
Don
@Don McErlean posted:Fatman: As usual a great "add" to our information. Now we know these cars might have been exported and could be international
Don
The baggage car is the 6.5 inch version of the 234 baggage car, as Don notes, but it is not the same length as the longer coaches. It is also a taller and narrower bodied car, so although Fatman's pictures make it look the same size as his cars, it is not.
Additionally, it should be noted that the 6.5 inch cars, including both passenger and freight cars, featured regular hook couplers in 1938 and featured the curly q coupler only in 1939.
NWL
I believe this is the set that Nation Wide Lines is talking about from 1939.
Northwoods Flyer
Greg
Greg/NWL : I agree, I think we all are talking about the 6.5" cars from 1939 with the curly q couplers. I just checked my set like Greg pictured above and agree those are the cars. I have one small difference from Greg however, my engine has "401" stamped under the cab window. You can just make out the small number in the picture below. Everything else seems identical to the set that Greg pictured above.
Great discussion everyone !
Don
Attachments
Images (1)
Got a 301 set waiting for a good cleaning:
1939 catalog:
