TIU and antenna extension orientation.

Alex,

It's not an extension. It's just putting the existing antenna through a hole in the TIU's lid. This mod is discussed in both the 1st and 2nd editions of The DCS O Gauge Companion.

If you want to  mount the TIU vertically, be away of two things if you try to bend the existing antenna.

First, the wire doesn't hold a bend easily. Second, if the wire pulls the transceiver board off of the TIU main board, it's possible that you won't be able to put the transceiver back into its socket. The socket is very fragile.

Hi, Barry-

Well, that is what they called it, and it sure looks like an extension. They state that the total length, existing plus extension, should be 12.88 inches.

From this website:

http://www.rayman4449.dynip.co...Antenna_Modification

 Here are the two slightly different versions they showed:

And I wondered - - If I were to mount the TIU vertically, should the antenna be bent so it also is vertical?

Thx!

Alex

Alex,

If you would have posted the actual picture initially, it would have been clear that it was, indeed, an extension.  

Regardles, before you go to the bother of physically extending the antenna, I suggest that you first just try poking the existing antenna through the TIU's lid. I found that when I did so, the results were as good as using a "rubber duckie" antenna as an extension.

In my testing, the most "bang for the buck" was obtained just by freeing the existing antenna from the confines of the TIU and making it vertical instead of horizontal.

Note that the actual length of the antenna IS important.  It is related the frequency of the transmission/reception from the remote.

John,

The "rubber duckie" I used had it's length keyed to one full wavelength of the DCS signal. In effect, I was doing the same thing as described herein except that my antenna utilized a BNC connector that was attached to the bottom section of the TIU case so the the case's lid could be lifted up without disturbing the antenna. This facilitated getting inside the case if, for example, a fuse needed to be changed.

Regardless, while this arrangement was clearly superior to the "stock" TIU antenna placement inside the TIU, it was marginally, if at all, better than simply poking the existing antenna vertically through the TIU's lid. That's why it never made it into the book as a recommended TIU antenna improvement.

Raymond,

" . . . maximum performance you will want to mount the TIU flat . . ."

Thanks! That is what I wanted to know. I read your entire article before I started the thread; I do thoroughly understand the antenna length importance, but couldn't remember how a bend would affect a monopole effective length.

Presently, I have my two TIU's mounted vertically, not on a wall, but on one of the frame 2x4's. They are located about 30 feet apart. So far, I had not had much problem, but I keep adding buildings and other stuff that obstruct the area around one of the TIU's, and have been getting the OUT OF RANGE condition occasionally.

A short while ago I changed the remote setup to QUICKSET SPEED, and this seems to be helping.

Barry, John -

Thank you as well!

Alex

Alex,

A short while ago I changed the remote setup to QUICKSET SPEED, and this seems to be helping.

Be aware that doing that only masks the problem. The TIU assumes that commands are eating through to the engines, and doesn't hangup the system waiting for an acknowledgement from the nine via the TIU. The signal strength is not being improved, rather, the problems are not being reported.

From my testing what is pictured above provided far superior range then just having the very small portion of the stock antenna sticking out.  The stock antenna is very short and is barely long enough to stick out the top.  Perhaps if you're in the same room with your TIU there is enough improvement for the avg person, but in my scale with your power supply and TIU actually indoors behind a wall, the full wave antenna extension makes a significant difference.  The other advantage to going with a custom cut wire, is you can end up with a more exact total antenna length when taking the original antenna length into account.  At any rate I think everyone has enough information and ideas to go from.

On the vertical mounting, perhaps depending on where you have them located and the overall conditions it may still work as good.  Can't hurt to try it out and if it works then go with it. 

If you have obstructions in-between you and the TIU you may find having the longer antenna extension to be helpful. 

Alex, do you mean Quickset speed or Speed mode? 

Raymond

Rayman,

From my testing what is pictured above provided far superior range then just having the very small portion of the stock antenna sticking out.

My tests, between the pokey wire and the full-wave rubber duckie antenna, were conducted in my home, with the layout one floor (12 feet) above and 70 feet or so away from the remote. There were several layers of walls and ceiling in the signal route. Both antenna configurations garnered the same results, which were much superior to the unmodified TIU.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

I was actually addressing the modification pictured by Alex, I didn't know you had even tried an alternate antenna.

My actual point was to tell any folks that were contemplating an antenna mod that just sticking a wire out without using the proper length for the antenna will likely make it worse instead of better.

Gentlemen.......Very interesting....... Thank you

Raymond, Barry:

Oh, oh . . . Oops!

Raymond wrote: "Alex, do you mean Quickset speed or Speed mode?"

And Barry followed regarding Quickset Speed: "The signal strength is not being improved, rather, the problems are not being reported."

Actually, I was trying to set "SPEED" mode as was recommended by the website I visited, but now realize that I did not do it correctly - I indeed and mistakenly turned on the "QUICKSET SPEED"!

I just went back and did it over again on both remotes; turned OFF the QUICKSET SPEED, and turned the Operating Mode to SPEED. Have not tried it yet . . .

Raymond, my layout is in a single room (33' x 38') but there is a stairwell that blocks one or the other TIU depending on where I stand. Actually, and all things considered, everything runs rather well.

THANK YOU!

Alex

Alex,

Just to be even more confusing, I responded to Speed Mode, even  though you stated Quickset Speed.

Quickset Speed will allow you to get around the "speed scrolling" bug, however, it has nothing to do with signal strength and won't eliminate any error messages.

Speed Mode, on the other hand, won't correct any bugs and it won't fix signal strength problems, however, it will mask problems by suppressing error messages.

Barry,

No, you just can't do that; that is, change your opinion.

You see, a while ago, before I read your last post, I changed my remotes as I said I was going to: QUICKSET SPEED = OFF, and OPERATING MODE = SPEED, and I ran the train (2 MU diesels pulling 40+ cars) that had been giving me minor problems in two areas.

And guess what? It worked perfectly.  

I guess my remotes do not read the forum and decided to work OK.  The speed steps are crisp now, which I understand may be a false indication, BUT the engines did accelerate and decelerate accordingly.

More telling, however, was the horn. Whereas before the horn would stick and continue blowing for several seconds after I removed my finger from the button when in those sections of track, now it followed the remote command to a tee.

I am not really going to worry too much about it, and as long as it continues to work as it is doing now, I am very happy, thank you!

THX!

Alex

Alex,

The thing about Speed Mode is that, if there's an uncorrected problem somewhere in your wiring or track topology that is causing any kind of an error that Speed Mode is masking, all will be fine until you command an engine to do something, and it simply does not do it.

This can be something benign, such as not blowing the horn or the whistle, or not firing a coupler. On the other hand, it can also be not stopping an engine before it runs into another train.

If you keep using Speed Mode without correcting any possible underlying DCS signal issues, eventually you're bound to have a problem. However, the remote will be clueless that all is not well.

Just my 2 cents...

That is what I thought you were meaning to do but I wasn't sure what you actually had set and didn't want to assume anything.  Yes I've found that if you do have an area of unresponsiveness the effective area where it doesn't respond can be reduced by setting it to SPEED mode.  (Just to clarify it is and was clearly understood this does not affect track signal, that was never said or implied)  I dont have any problem areas on my ovals but I still keep them in SPEED mode.  In just now reading your most recent reply it sounds like it has also worked for you too to fix the unresposiveness which I'm glad to hear.  As you have time and the desire, you can work to resolve the underlying signal issue but at least you have now found as I have that this trick works pretty good.  This is why I just keep mine on SPEED mode, it just reduces the chances of you having unresponsiveness if you happen to encounter it.

That's good to hear things are running good overall.  Give it a little time and you should have any remaining issues resolved.  If mounting the TIUs flat doesn't resolve the OUT OF RF range messages, move on to the TIU antenna.  If you try any intermediate steps before adding the full extension and still have issues, the full extension should fix your remote to TIU communication issues.

Also as a note, see the DCS Overview page on my website, I have the remote menu structures laid out so you can quickly see what settings are under which menu areas. 

Feel free to email me anytime directly if you have any questions like this (email address is at the bottom of my homepage) I'll be more than happy to help especially on the remaining areas of signal issue.

FYI, the website with the pictured antenna mods is mine.

Thanks and good luck.

Raymond

Rayman,

This is why I just keep mine on SPEED mode, it just reduces the chances of you having unresponsiveness if you happen to encounter it.

Just to be clear, if there's a problem encountered while running under Speed Mode, the only "unresponsiveness" that is eliminated is in the remote. The engine will remain just as unresponsive as it would if running in Normal mode.

Speed Mode is not a panacea. It is more like a placebo. It masks symptoms and it cures nothing.