So for grins, I extended the antenna with a loop of wire. It improves the signal and the car is working better.  UNTIL I turn the lights on.  When the lights are on, the signal goes to crap and I can't control the car unless my hand is over the top. Turn the lights off and I can control the car again.

Very weird.

Joe,

Might this be a ground plane issue? Or might you need to put the signal on all rails?

This is from Carl Tuvesons site, it has improved signal on my two rail layout.

Enhancing TMCC Signal Distribution
for two rail layouts  

Ray

Joe Fermani posted:

So for grins, I extended the antenna with a loop of wire. It improves the signal and the car is working better.  UNTIL I turn the lights on.  When the lights are on, the signal goes to crap and I can't control the car unless my hand is over the top. Turn the lights off and I can control the car again.

Very weird.

Lights on the car or elsewhere?  I don't really have a solution but if it was working fine and nothing has changed on the layout I suspect an issue with the RX board for the TMCC signal.  If I recall correctly I had to take mine to Lionel and repaired for a similar issue many years ago.

MartyE,

When I turn the lights on for the car, the signal goes to crap.  It would appear that the lights are causing interference.  I have it running OK if I keep the lights off, with the addition of me extending the antenna.

Ray,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think its a TMCC signal issue on the rails.  I have Ross track and the tmcc signal is tied to both outside rails.  The rest of my trains are all working normally.  The problem is only with this car.

Sounds like it might be the R2LC, that one seems to be an oddball.  I have no idea if a later version of the R2LC would work, but that's probably one thing I'd try as that one is listed as unavailable at Lionel.  I'd suggest trying a C06 or C07 first as the lighting polarity was reversed for the C08 and later versions.

Thanks John.  After I read your response, I shot an email to Mike Reagan to ask about using other R2LCs in the car.  He agrees with you that the radio board is most likely faulty.  He thinks the C08 will work in the car.  Once I get one to try it out, I will let you know how it works.  Thanks for the help.

The only wild card with the C08 is the reversal of the polarity of the lighting output in command mode.  However, given the age of the car, I suspect they just use incandescent lighting and it won't matter.  That's why I offered up the option of the C07 board.

Actually John I believe it was luminescent panel similar to what Miller Engineering sells as a kit.

You are correct MartyE.  Its luminescent panels.  I assume they do not care about polarity?

The have polarity, there is a power supply to boost the voltage to 60-130 volts somewhere.  The question is, does the power supply input have polarity and do they control the panels with the light outputs.  The actual panel is driven by high voltage AC.

I doubt they are allowing 60-130 V (deadly voltage) in a toy.  G

GGG posted:

I doubt they are allowing 60-130 V (deadly voltage) in a toy.  G

Well, you can doubt it, but you'd be wrong.  It's at a very low current and a high frequency, so it's actually not all that dangerous.

http://ch00ftech.com/2012/08/0...u-power-an-el-panel/

How Much Power Does an EL Panel Need?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

GGG posted:

I doubt they are allowing 60-130 V (deadly voltage) in a toy.  G

Well, you can doubt it, but you'd be wrong.  It's at a very low current and a high frequency, so it's actually not all that dangerous.

http://ch00ftech.com/2012/08/0...u-power-an-el-panel/

How Much Power Does an EL Panel Need?

I learned something valuable this week.  Sometimes it's best to "see how the other guys are doing it" before trying something yourself.

 Introduction

For those of you just tuning in, almost three months ago, I attempted to build a dimming power supply for a large sheet of electroluminescent material.  The tricky part is that EL materials need about 120V of alternating current to operate and dimming them involves changing the frequency of that current.

 

Or perhaps this link.

http://www.talkingelectronics....ence/LitELine02.html

Electroluminescent material comes in both sheet and wire (cable) varieties. The actual construction of these products is more complex that shown above. The outer wire touches an extremely thin conducting film to produce the outer electrode so an  "electric field" will be produced between the inner and outer wires.
For our discussion you can see two wires (electrodes) are present and these must be connected to a voltage source of approx 100v AC. The term AC actually means Alternating Current but it also refers to a voltage that is alternating. We use the term AC to refer to an alternating voltage source. Electroluminescent material will only give off light when an oscillating (alternating voltage) is supplied to it. It does not work on DC (DC is the voltage supplied by a battery).

I am not disputing how EL works, just find it hard to believe toy manufacturers putting it in toys with a 120V output even if low current.

It only takes 30V and .1amps yes that is 100ma to kill in the right conditions.  10ma is painful.

So is a 120V power supply in the Lionel train?  G

Well, you said you doubted they put that voltage into the "toy", but in fact in order to get it working, they had to.  It's the same for all those Miller Engineering signs you see.  I don't know the exact voltage for this car, the EL panels and wire that I've experimented with have between 90 and 130 volts output from the power modules.

The output of these power supplies is in the microamps, they shouldn't be fatal currents.  OTOH, I don't stick my finger on them on purpose.   I lost count of the times I got zapped by TV high-voltage power in my youth, and I'm still here.

I talked to Mike Reagan about the car.  He told me to try the c08. Surprisingly it works but, I lost control for turning the lights on and off. They are always on now.  I tried changing the program code on the r2lc to all the various options. None gave me control over the lights. Mike needs to look at it and will most likely need to mod the car in some way to make the c08 fully compatible. Hopefully he can knock it into shape.  With the c08, I actual get complete motor control for the speed of the whales. The original radio board only gave me a low and high speed setting. So I am at least getting a speed upgrade. Having the lights always on, is not that bad if it cannot be adjusted, since all other functions work properly with the newer radio board.

Odd, I wonder where the lights are wired.  The older R2LC had the same controls, just a different polarity of the light outputs.  I wonder if the C07 would work properly in that unit?

Not sure on an 07 as I don't have one on hand to try. Mike seems confident the 08 should work.  I will have to send him the car so he can trace the lights and figure out the control. I had an 06 board that board wouldn't turn the lights on but the lights defaulted to off.

I suspect Mike is right, hard to say what is going on without seeing it.  I'm sure he's quite capable of getting it working.

Got the car back from Mike.  You cannot use a stock R2LC 08.  He checked the wiring for the lights and they are using a negative dc offset (if I recall what he told me correctly).  He ended up going to Lionel and getting a stock R2LC programmed with the "Whale Code".  Its working perfectly now.

Had I used a stock R2LC - 08, I had all control except the lights (they were always on).  I also had absolute motor control - full range of speed.

The Whale code gives you control of lights but only 2 speed settings for the whales (Slow and Fast). Which is how it was designed.

Another plus is that that R2LC used is a current production version with no tuning pot on it, so it should work much better than the original.

Nice to have connections in the back room of Lionel, kinda' puts Mike in a good position.