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Originally Posted by Jtrain:
Originally Posted by PC9850:
One other question I had. Did some of these cars come from the factory with no doors on one end? I think three of the coaches are like this - On one end of the car it's just open to the inside.
Nick, Nice Photos!
I have several of the K-Line 21" ESE cars and they all have doors on both ends. Although most of my K-Line ESE cars now have FEC lettering, SP Sunset Limited lettering, Southern lettering, and ACL lettering 
... Maybe they broke off and fell out? I had that happen to one of my K-Line 21" Northern Pacific cars, but I was able to put the loose door back in place.
Alan has confirmed that his are the same as mine though. Here's what I think. My 7 ESE cars are the original 1999 run. K-Line did make another run of 10 ESE cars in 2004. Do you have the 2004 cars where it's possible they corrected the omitted doors?
Also, does anyone know if any of the parts guys stock these door pieces? I'd like to add them to the three cars in my set that apparently the factory just forgot to install. The frame with the two screws that would hold it is there and everything.
Great photos everyone. Lets keep them coming!! Anybody that is running these cars....please post photos. Since it seems we may not see these produced anytime soon, this would be a great way to have a single thread with "live" examples of them on layouts!!
Nick....you may have a point about the later production. I have those cars too but only looked at the ones that matched your cars. I will try to get under the layout and find the others and report back....don't know how quick I will be but I will do it.
Alan
That would be awesome Alan. Thanks again for yours and others' continued efforts in trying to solve this "mystery", lol!
Nick,
I have two sets of the NYC ESE 21" cars. They are the K-4670L 6 car set and the K-4670B 4 car set. Of these 10 cars, only the Dewey coach is missing one of the interior doors as yours is... The other 2 cars you mentioned earlier (Smith and Seward)were in the K-4670C 3 car set.
If you find a source for the doors, please share it as I'm sure many of use would like to replace that which was missed at the factory by the "third butter cutter on the starboard chow line".
Best,
Dave
Nick...I replied to your e-mail concerning the Mid America 3-Railers as I just got in from a late scheduled meeting I had just after my last post. It is around 11 your time now so I will get back to all of you on the door issue tomorrow evening when I have more time to look at all of my cars....
Alan
The Texas Special and PRR cars are especially stunning. Did K-Line make these in 21" versions as well?
Most of my sets of ESE cars are in the yellow/black boxes which I believe is the later version. I have a few ESE cars in the silver/black boxes which I believe is the earlier version. All of the cars have the end doors (and all of the side doors).
Originally Posted by PC9850:
Originally Posted by Jtrain:
Originally Posted by PC9850:
Did some of these cars come from the factory with no doors on one end? I think three of the coaches are like this - On one end of the car it's just open to the inside.
Nick, Nice Photos!
I have several of the K-Line 21" ESE cars and they all have doors on both ends. Although most of my K-Line ESE cars now have FEC lettering, SP Sunset Limited lettering, Southern lettering, and ACL lettering ... Maybe they broke off and fell out? I had that happen to one of my K-Line 21" Northern Pacific cars, but I was able to put the loose door back in place.
Here's what I think. My 7 ESE cars are the original 1999 run. K-Line did make another run of 10 ESE cars in 2004. Do you have the 2004 cars where it's possible they corrected the omitted doors?
Judging by everyone's reports, I think the conclusion can be drawn that the factory forgot the doors on a random basis. Some have them, some don't. All the more reason to track down a parts source so we can finish the job!
Originally Posted by TSU Sam:
Here are a few pics of my K-Line Texas Special 18" cars, and a few of my various ATSF, including the bilevel transition car, which only K-Line has made so far.
Greg your K-Line cars look GREAT!! The combo of the Red and Silver on your Texas Special looks very SHARP. I really like the "Snake" look as the Trxas Special goes through the curves and then the back wards curves. Reminds me of riding trains as a kid going through the mountains and valleys. Thanks for posting.
Bill:
Just loved your video of the Sante Fe El Capitan, I am very envious!!!!!! I sure hope that someone will produce these cars. Not sure whether this is something that GGD would have an interest in, but based upon what they are selling for in the secondary market, I think they would be a hit. I sure hope that Scott is following this thread.
Thanks Brian. I do like my Santa Fe21" K-Lines a lot. I would hope that Scott might do something in a Santa Fe Consist but I don't know if he has ever done a Hi Level car. The one thing I wish Scott would do is to be more pro active in what he is planning to do. Spme people seem to know what he is doing but I don't seem to know about it until it's too late. I have only been able to buy a little CN Passenger stuff and some GTW HW's. I am not into his steam at all MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE CONTROL SYSTEM. It seems each time I talk to him trying to find CN or GTW Passenger stuff he does not say anything about any future runs so my luck with GGD has not been very good in the past. I know he is a one man band and seem like when he does communicate it is over on the 3RS forum. Since I don't consider my self a nut and bolt counter I don't speend a lot of time over there. Oh well guess I will just be happy with the items I have lol.
OK...Nick....I pulled out all of the ESE cars I have....looks like I have sets B, C, and M. Set B is from the very first 4 car run and then I believe C was an early run also BUT....set B is in K-Lines early black streamliner boxes. C and M are in their yellow and black latter boxes. Both B and C have cars with the missing interior bulkheads as we have discussed above. Set M is not missing any bulkheads. I am going to take a guess here and say that I would bet that the earlier / first run cars all came that way and then the "mistake" (unless it was done on purpose) was corrected in the final run of the cars. I am going to check my early run satin finish Santa Fe cars to see if they are missing the bulkheads. Just have to find them!!
Alan
Here are some pictures of a SP daylight train pulling into the station grounds. It is headed up by K-Line AA units followed by two MTH Express cars and ten 21" K-Line passenger cars....
Alan
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Originally Posted by Popsrr:
I do like my Santa Fe21" K-Lines a lot. I would hope that Scott might do something in a Santa Fe Consist but I don't know if he has ever done a Hi Level car. The one thing I wish Scott would do is to be more pro active in what he is planning to do. Spme people seem to know what he is doing but I don't seem to know about it until it's too late....
Bill, here is the 3rd Rail website. You can sign up for a monthly newsletter and get current info. A link for Golden Gate Depot is listed on the site also. http://www.3rdrail.com
Brian I sent scott a note asking to be added to his list. Thanks Bill
Originally Posted by leavingtracks:
OK...Nick....I pulled out all of the ESE cars I have....looks like I have sets B, C, and M. Set B is from the very first 4 car run and then I believe C was an early run also BUT....set B is in K-Lines early black streamliner boxes. C and M are in their yellow and black latter boxes. Both B and C have cars with the missing interior bulkheads as we have discussed above. Set M is not missing any bulkheads. I am going to take a guess here and say that I would bet that the earlier / first run cars all came that way and then the "mistake" (unless it was done on purpose) was corrected in the final run of the cars. I am going to check my early run satin finish Santa Fe cars to see if they are missing the bulkheads. Just have to find them!!
Alan
Yep, this is pretty much the conclusion we came to a few posts above. I own set B (1999) and set C (2000) so I know about the older vs. newer boxes. All the info on them can be found on the Legacy K-Line website.
Great...looks like the mystery is solved...now, lets hope we can find the parts. I wonder if williams bulkheads could be modified to work???
Alan
I would personally want the original parts, although given how long dead the company has been I have to imagine they're going to be tough to find. I'll give Brasseur a call tomorrow since they seem to be one of the go to sources for K-Line parts.
This is one of my favorite K-Line passenger trains. The WP F units are pulling and 8 car consist of 21" CZ cars.
The observation car has been modified to light the drumhead and the static red light has been replaced with a blinking unit.
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Just got my K-Line 21" 1948 20th Century Limited set today. I was able to obtain it as a result of this thread as a matter of fact. My new 3rd Rail Penn Central FL-9 will head them up until I can get the Lionel CCII Niagara for them. Thanks so much Phil! 
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15 inch cars don't look so bad and they are more than holding prices. Don
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After reading this thread, I feel very lucky. Being a passenger car person, I bought over a dozen of the various sets when k-line was in business. They are all new and in original boxes. A good return on investment if I sell, if all the talk about these high prices is true. I have the 10 cars of the ESE, the 8 cars of the C&NW double decer 21" cars and many more. One day I shall open them and enjoy my good fortune.
Larry S
The K-Line 18 inch PRR Spirit of St Louis set.
Thanks guys for updating with more pictures.
Nice looking set Nick!
Wonderful video Charlie....
Larry...hopefully you can take some pictures of those cars you have!!
Thanks,
Alan
The latter half of this video shows the K-Line 21" 20th Century Limited running on the layout:
Great video Nick!!!
Here is a pic of a K-Line 21" ATSF Hi-Level set crossing the harbor....
Alan
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If you would like to see some K-line Milwaukee cars on video please watch. It's in HD. Don
A mix of K-line and GGD lightweight passenger cars when the Broadway meets the Trail Blazer
Great shot and video Don....sure miss your layout and look forward to the new one.
Matt...very nice photo of a stunning set. I have the entire 21" SP set and it is one of my favorites.
Charlie...I always enjoy the videos of your mixed trains. Nicely done!
Alan
Nick you are very welcome. I am so happy to see that my old cars went to a good home. It was great to see them in action on your layout. I hope you can locate the other 2 cars.
Charlie, nice video.
Still looking Phil, and I hope you are enjoying the GGD cars you always wanted originally
I will be on the market for one of Lionel's scale GS Daylight steamers in the near future. Naturally my choice for passenger cars would be K-Line's 21" Daylight cars. However, I noticed in the pictures of them here the colors might be a tad more dull than on the Lionel engines. Can anyone confirm this?
Nick....The colors on the K-line daylight cars are considerably "duller" than the Lionel colors or for that matter than any of the other manufacturer's. I have examples of each. Lionel's GS steamer's color doesn't even match their passenger cars...mostly a difference in brightness. I love the Daylight scheme so I have Lionel, MTH, K-line, Weaver, Williams, etc.....all in the Daylight. When comparing complete trains from the same manufacturer, MTH did a great job matching colors. Williams also did a great job matching their brass GS-4 perfectly. K-line's E-8's and passenger cars all match but the colors are really toned down compared to any of the other manufacturers. Some say that they did not get the colors right but I like them anyway....sort of what I would expect the colors to look like after being out in the sun for a few years...??
Finally, the Weaver 80 foot aluminum cars match most closely with the Williams colors. The biggest differences between all of the manufacturers is the color of the "red", which of course is the bright orange-red that borders the orange window stripe.
So....if one is going to mix cars from different manufacturers, it will be impossible to have matching colors. In Lionel's case, even the locomotive colors aren't a perfect match..but close.
Alan
Thanks for the info Alan. I think I'd still go with the K-Line 21" cars just by virtue of continuing my collection of them. They also don't look terribly far off compared to this photo. They seem to have gone too deep on the "red" part of "red-orange".
a few weeks ago on ebay, a 7 car kline 21" union pacific set topped out at $1525. about the highest i have seen.-jim
