Traction tires for a F-12e

I own an F-12 so I also have an interest in finding the proper tire. I would first try to talk to Lionel Parts again and ask them for tires from another steam engine with the same-sized drivers. The driver diameter is approximately 1.375 inches (66 inches full scale).

MELGAR

This one should work. Diameter and width are the same and its only .002" thicker.

Pete

Pete,

Your recommendation is probably the best solution. As an alternative, if Lionel doesn't have the part, the driver diameter on the F-12 is about 1.375 inches (34.9 millimeters and 66 inches full scale). The MTH DE-0000027 tire fits wheel diameters from 35 to 37 millimeters (1.378 to 1.457 inches.) The tire outside diameter is 26.9 millimeters (1.059 inches) and the width is 3.5 millimeters (0.1378 inches).

MELGAR

One of my problems is that the F-12 tends to jerk while going into an O36 curve while in restricted speed and the loco is rated at an O31.  It didn’t do that until I changed the traction tires that came in the box.  I’m thinking this may be the problem so I’m looking for a thinner same diameter type tire from MTH.  

Thanks

MTH uses driver diameters when referencing tire sizes. Lionel's numbers are for the actual tire before its installed on the wheel. Look up your engine at lionelsupport.com and you will see the dimensions of the tire that came with your engine.  Its virtually identical to the one shown above. When stretched onto the wheel the diameter will increase and the width and thickness will decrease.

If you want to use MTH tires, measure your wheels, convert to metric, then see if MTH has anything close, you will likely have to try a few different sizes to find something close.

Prte

Norton posted:

MTH uses driver diameters when referencing tire sizes. Lionel's numbers are for the actual tire before its installed on the wheel. Look up your engine at lionelsupport.com and you will see the dimensions of the tire that came with your engine.  Its virtually identical to the one shown above. When stretched onto the wheel the diameter will increase and the width and thickness will decrease.

If you want to use MTH tires, measure your wheels, convert to metric, then see if MTH has anything close, you will likely have to try a few different sizes to find something close.

Prte

 

Norton,  is the width or the thickness of a traction tire that can affect the smooth running of the locomotive?  The locomotive runs smooth on straights but has a jerking motion when in restricted speed and going into a curve.  I currently have the proper size tires on the locomotive but was wondering if i should try something thinner or with less width or both.

-Regards

Blake

I guess I should just take them all off and do a test run through the curves to see if that is the problem before i go and order a different sized tire.

Blake

That is a good idea. I suspect when you put on new tires you got better grip. These have dead axles, no differential. One wheel has to slip on a curve. By increasing traction, the tire that is trying to slip just hops along. A lot of 4WD vehicles do the same thing.

Pete

Norton posted:

That is a good idea. I suspect when you put on new tires you got better grip. These have dead axles, no differential. One wheel has to slip on a curve. By increasing traction, the tire that is trying to slip just hops along. A lot of 4WD vehicles do the same thing.

Pete

Pete, if I take them off and the locomotive does run like it should in the curve, then that rules in that the problem is the traction tires.  If that's the case, should I go with a thinner tire or one that is less than .118" wide?  What would you do?

Blake

The simplest solution would be to put your old tires back on if you still have them. No point greasing the new tires. Otherwise thinner tires might work, better than narrower tires.

Pete

Norton posted:

The simplest solution would be to put your old tires back on if you still have them. No point greasing the new tires. Otherwise thinner tires might work, better than narrower tires.

Pete

Thanks Pete

@Blake Morris no offense, but are you sure you didn't accidentally bend the side rods when installing the new tires?  (This loco has long side rods that are all one piece, which dramatically limit how far the wheels and axles can slide laterally when rounding a curve.)  Also, double-check the hex bolts that hold the rods to the wheels, and the orientation eccentric crank.  If these are too tight OR too loose they could affect operation.

You might even take the shell off, place the loco on the track at the end of a tangent, and turn the flywheel by hand as the loco enters a curve to make sure nothing in the drive rods / valve gear is binding.  Cruise control can camouflage a multitude of running problems!

I saw on your other thread, at least one other poster has experienced smooth operation on O36.  Good luck!

Ted S posted:

@Blake Morris no offense, but are you sure you didn't accidentally bend the side rods when installing the new tires?  (This loco has long side rods that are all one piece, which dramatically limit how far the wheels and axles can slide laterally when rounding a curve.)  Also, double-check the hex bolts that hold the rods to the wheels, and the orientation eccentric crank.  If these are too tight OR too loose they could affect operation.

You might even take the shell off, place the loco on the track at the end of a tangent, and turn the flywheel by hand as the loco enters a curve to make sure nothing in the drive rods / valve gear is binding.  Cruise control can camouflage a multitude of running problems!

I saw on your other thread, at least one other poster has experienced smooth operation on O36.  Good luck!

Thanks for replying Ted!  As of now,  I was just trying to rule out the obvious by looking at the tires but I haven’t checked all of the other areas that you mentioned.  Those were going to be my next steps.

Blake

Check the brake shoe detail, make sure the brake shoes aren't rubbing the tires. Turn the locomotive over and you see the small phillips head screws behind each drive wheel.

Loosen the brake shoes and insert a small flat head screwdriver between the brake shoe and the drive wheel/tire for spacing then retighten.

Check the "non tired"  rear set drivers as well just to be on the safe side. The middle set is flangeless and undersized so it shouldn't be an issue.

The brake shoes on the engineers side of the loco have a tendency to pivot towards the wheel when they are tightened. This is one of the checks/adjustments I do to every new loco before I run it.

RickO posted:

Check the brake shoe detail, make sure the brake shoes aren't rubbing the tires. Turn the locomotive over and you see the small phillips head screws behind each drive wheel.

Loosen the brake shoes and insert a small flat head screwdriver between the brake shoe and the drive wheel/tire for spacing then retighten.

Check the "non tired"  rear set drivers as well just to be on the safe side. The middle set is flangeless and undersized so it shouldn't be an issue.

The brake shoes on the engineers side of the loco have a tendency to pivot towards the wheel when they are tightened. This is one of the checks/adjustments I do to every new loco before I run it.

Thanks Rico,  I’ll do that!

Blake

Blake Morris posted:

Ted S posted:

@Blake Morris no offense, but are you sure you didn't accidentally bend the side rods when installing the new tires?  (This loco has long side rods that are all one piece, which dramatically limit how far the wheels and axles can slide laterally when rounding a curve.)  Also, double-check the hex bolts that hold the rods to the wheels, and the orientation eccentric crank.  If these are too tight OR too loose they could affect operation.

You might even take the shell off, place the loco on the track at the end of a tangent, and turn the flywheel by hand as the loco enters a curve to make sure nothing in the drive rods / valve gear is binding.  Cruise control can camouflage a multitude of running problems!

I saw on your other thread, at least one other poster has experienced smooth operation on O36.  Good luck!

Thanks for replying Ted!  As of now,  I was just trying to rule out the obvious by looking at the tires but I haven’t checked all of the other areas that you mentioned.  Those were going to be my next steps.

Blake

Hi Ted,

All the above checked out and is in good working order.  I did reseat the traction tires and it made some improvement.  The loco runs smoothly in both curves and straights as long as there is no load on it.  Once a load is placed back on the loco,  it does the jerking thing again going around curves in restricted speed.  I ordered some new but a size thinner traction tires from Lionel today.  I’m hoping this will resolve my issue.

Blake