Traction tyres - replacement or substitution

Bullfrog SNOT :: The Performance Improvement YOU Can Install

I just put new traction tires on. 

I have to say, I'm unimpressed with Bullfrog Snot, not only is is messy, it doesn't fill the groove in the tire, so you'll end up with oddball running issues.  Also, Bullfrog Snot seems to dry up in the jar after one use when it's opened.  Yes, I had the top on tight.

I’ve never used Bullfrog Snot but I have used similar compounds at work, they’re not my favourite substance. 

I’ve put out an enquiry for a new traction tyre in U.K. Failing all else, I’ll be in Florida in Jan/Feb and I’ll bring a shopping list of small items..

Traction tires are cheap. Change them all and be done with it.

It only has one. The problem is that postage for small items from US to UK is a killer, so unless I can find one in UK I’ll just defer the issue until I’m in USA in Jan/Feb

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I just put new traction tires on. 

I have to say, I'm unimpressed with Bullfrog Snot, not only is is messy, it doesn't fill the groove in the tire, so you'll end up with oddball running issues.  Also, Bullfrog Snot seems to dry up in the jar after one use when it's opened.  Yes, I had the top on tight.

Just the name turns me off !!!

The Lionel 242-206 traction tire was used from the postwar period into the modern period and fits many steam locomotives. Just order a whole bunch to have on hand to spread out the shipping costs.

Try using an o ring available at your local hardware store. They have various thickness and diameters will have experiment to get it right

Traction tires are flat, O-rings are round.  I can't imagine this being a good substitute!

Useful information about the traction tyre part number. I’ll put some on my list next time I order something. 

Meanwhile, I found a bag of assorted rubber bands in the bureau at home. Sorting through them, I found about half a dozen which were flat section and the right sort of size. I’ve fitted one to the loco, it has run around my O27 test loop for about 10 minutes, hauling those heavy 24xx coaches and seems fine. If it only has a short life, I have five more in hand...

I found a YouTube suggesting using o-rings as traction tyres. The poster seemed happy enough... my guess would be that it worked well enough for his application, because diesel wheels are quite small diameter, but finding one in steam engine sizes (around 29mm) would be more challenging. 

A quick google indicates that an o-ring that size would be at least 1.6mm thick, which would be proud of the groove? 

Do a search for "rectangle o rings", you should be able to find something in the UK. You will need to know the approximate size. "square o-rings" would be another search criteria.

Steve

I have a better idea... get another 2034-100 motor and bolt that into the 8602 body.  No more rubber tires EVER!!  Also, ozone and more coasting distance.  Most MPC-era 4-wheel motors will also work.  But you would have to change or remove the E-unit, because there's no slot on top of the boiler for the protruding lever.

Isn't it amazing that a 67-year old part will bolt right into a modern train!?

A quick search indicates that “square section O rings” will need work to get the exact search words....

I did look at using the Scout 2304 motor, or stripping the #8602 because I could use various components, and it wasn’t expensive. However that brought about another issue... the wheels on the Scout aren’t quartered accurately, so the side rods won’t fit as it stands. How are they fitted? Pressed on? 

The wheels are pressed on.  I'm NOT a fan of those aluminum wheels with the plastic centers that Lionel began using circa 1982.  If you install a 2034-100 or MPC-era 8209 / 8300 / 8302 motor, you'll probably have to use the side rods, crosshead guides and crossheads that came with it.  I know this means omitting the side rod, but I just like the way these run with AC motors so much better.  And as you've learned, tires are an accursed nuisance!!

Unless you have special tools and a lot of experience, trying to pull the wheels and re-quarter them isn't a good idea.  It'll be tough to get them back on tight, square, and without a wobble.  Also, the bosses for the side rods are very different from the newer aluminum wheels, and the "front" pair on the 2034 might not even be tapped for the hex screws.  I wish there were an easier way, but for me these little 2-4-2s have always been a "one-armed Billy"!

That’s all pretty much what I’d concluded from inspection of the Scout and it’s 2034 motor. I’ve never had much luck pressing wheels on and off, and I’m sure I’d end up taking both wheels off of one axle, to get the rods and gear wheel synchronised. 

I’ve now got a more-or-less solution to the traction tyres for now. I’m going to the local model shop on Tues to see what they’ve got in stock, and I can order some Lionel ones while I’m in the US in Jan.

Fredstrains posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I just put new traction tires on. 

I have to say, I'm unimpressed with Bullfrog Snot, not only is is messy, it doesn't fill the groove in the tire, so you'll end up with oddball running issues.  Also, Bullfrog Snot seems to dry up in the jar after one use when it's opened.  Yes, I had the top on tight.

Just the name turns me off !!!

Absolutely. Can't abide it.

-------------

And, per Mr GRJ, there are issues with the product anyway.

D500 posted:

Fredstrains posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I just put new traction tires on. 

I have to say, I'm unimpressed with Bullfrog Snot, not only is is messy, it doesn't fill the groove in the tire, so you'll end up with oddball running issues.  Also, Bullfrog Snot seems to dry up in the jar after one use when it's opened.  Yes, I had the top on tight.

Just the name turns me off !!!

Absolutely. Can't abide it.

-------------

And, per Mr GRJ, there are issues with the product anyway.

Ditto,, doesn't work.

Resurrecting an old thread...

A recent traction tire replacement where the first tire I tried to install snapped (fortunately the next one worked) got me to wondering.

1) Has anyone found a viable substitute for traction tires?  Bullfrog Snot was done to death in previous posts, and searches for square/rectangular/flat o-rings don't yield any useful results.  Surely there's a non-train industrial product that would work, but I just can't find it. 

2)  My stash of traction tires is stored in plastic bags at room temperature.  Some are in great shape, and some are hard and/or brittle.  What's the best way to store them?

@Mallard4468 posted:

Surely there's a non-train industrial product that would work, but I just can't find it.

Try a thin slice off of an appropriately sized piece of thinwall clear PVC tubing.

@Mallard4468 posted:

A recent traction tire replacement where the first tire I tried to install snapped (fortunately the next one worked) got me to wondering.

1) Has anyone found a viable substitute for traction tires?  Bullfrog Snot was done to death in previous posts, and searches for square/rectangular/flat o-rings don't yield any useful results.  Surely there's a non-train industrial product that would work, but I just can't find it.

2)  My stash of traction tires is stored in plastic bags at room temperature.  Some are in great shape, and some are hard and/or brittle.  What's the best way to store them?

The most promising idea for unusual sized tires is by using the proper compound they can be 3D printed.  That's especially true for the narrow tires used on many brass steamers as commercial tires don't seem to be available for those.

For standard 3.5mm or 4.0mm width tires, I just use MTH traction tires of the correct size.  I store them in sealed plastic bags at room temperatures, they last for many years that way.  I don't know how long as they're still good.

I’ve posted this before but this really thick shrink tube is working great for me. It’s been almost a year since I started putting these on my diesel engines. This is the size I use. Bought from Amazon. No need to shrink it.

@ChiTown Steve posted:

No need to shrink it.

I would think that using heatshrink slightly larger than the wheel and shrinking it would yield the best results.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I would think that using heatshrink slightly larger than the wheel and shrinking it would yield the best results.

Probably right. The size I have fits snug. Hardest part is cutting it so that it fits inside the groove of the wheel. Once you’ve done that it doesn't need to be perfect.

Traction tires are relatively pliable. If you know someone in the US, have them get the tires and mail them in a card, postage for a card(Christmas, birthday, etc) was a 1.50 for a global forever stamp, that was in 2023, prices have probably gone up in 2024.

I think people in this thread have not shipped internationally. Shipping is charged by the lb. 1 lb to 4lb can be shipped first class, when I say 1lb, it's got to be under 1lb total weight or it goes at the 2 lb rate, which is currently 33.05

The receiver across the pond often has to pay additional fees, and sometimes taxes and duties, just to receive the package, if the contents of the package AND the cost of the postage exceed a particular value. In Denmark's case, that value is ~52.00. so with 33.05 counting towards that 52.00 cap, the contents can't cost much.

This isn't to derail this topic, it's to help those saying 'just order traction tires' understand it's a very costly proposition.

The card trick works, with thin flexible items. And it'll take about 3 weeks to get there

Rod, I didn't realize that the declared cost figured into the mix.  I've recently sent a few shipments overseas, to Australia and the UK, nobody mentioned the extra cost based on value.