Moonman posted:Oh, don't forget that the safety "stop" electrical blocks are needed on both sides.
If you have lighted passenger cars, the block needs to be longer than that train - the lighted cars will forward the power
That's a good point... I didn't think about powered cars bridging power across blocks. Will have to give that some thought & maybe do a couple tests. Appreciate the input!
frizzinbee posted:Ken-Oscale posted:Nice work!! I wonder if it can be adjusted to open more straight up? Might avoid some head-bumps if it can.
Thanks, and good point! It can be adjusted higher if I wish, I could just move the location where the arm mates to the bridge lower. I have it at less than 90 degrees (for now, at least) to ensure that the two pieces of track on the hinged side do not impinge on each other when the bridge is lifted. Once I know how much play there is in that joint I may be able to make it open higher.
I know its not the greatest look, but if you put the hinges on top of two block on the top of the layout the track will match up just great!
It would also let you go beyond 90 degrees if you wanted to!
Dustin, The layout construction looks great! Wow, what I could get done if I had helpers like yours!!!
mike g. posted:frizzinbee posted:Ken-Oscale posted:Nice work!! I wonder if it can be adjusted to open more straight up? Might avoid some head-bumps if it can.
Thanks, and good point! It can be adjusted higher if I wish, I could just move the location where the arm mates to the bridge lower. I have it at less than 90 degrees (for now, at least) to ensure that the two pieces of track on the hinged side do not impinge on each other when the bridge is lifted. Once I know how much play there is in that joint I may be able to make it open higher.
I know its not the greatest look, but if you put the hinges on top of two block on the top of the layout the track will match up just great!
Mike & Ken - After some experimentation and consideration, I have to admit you are both correct. I've re-designed the lift bridge with smaller top-mounted hinges, set about 3 in forward of the cut in the track (which necessitates a U-shaped cut on the hinged end of the bridge). I'm also mounting the hydraulic arm differently so that I can get to ~90 degrees and make a more adult-friendly walk-through. Will post pics once I have a chance to get the pieces cut and installed, but I think this design will be improvement.
Great I am glad its going to work for you!
Quick update with current status of the re-built lift bridge. I was able to cut out and install the main pieces today. I haven't gotten the hydraulic arm fully installed, nor several other ancillary pieces, but it's largely done.
The middle section of the bridge (between hinges) is 9" wide - plenty of room for a double main line to pass through. As the previous post states, this time around I have the hinges ahead of the track break, which will allow that end to swing "up and over" the stationary track sections affixed to the table. I also upgraded to 3/4 birch plywood this time... Figured I could splurge for a critical component, and the cheaper composite board I used previously had shown signs of warping:
Here's a demo of the lift:
Here's the lift-away from the non-hinged side. I left ~1/8" gap (rather then making joints fully flush) to allow some margin for expansion:
Close-up of the hinged side. The hole cut into the center is for the support arm, which has been re-located on the inside of the table (vs. in the walkway as in previous design):
Here's how the hydraulic support arm will sit. I only have it half connected for now, but this shows the general idea:
Next-up, more work to finish-out this bridge, as well as the installation of a couple more fixed bridges along the back side of the layout.
Hi FRIZZINBEE, I'm looking into a layout myself with a swing up like yours. What I've seen online also uses your pneumatic arm but uses these special pivot hinges instead. It's supposed to be a better hinge for these kind of applications as the pivot point is up higher a bit above the board.
https://www.sugatsune.com/prod...mp;productid=PL%2D60
I'm thinking of having 3 tracks over this section, one is an elevated outer loop with trolley line under. I'm thinking it may be to heavy to swing up so may have to swing it out like a door, if that's ever done.
Frizzinbee, sure looks sweet nice work! Nice clean and easy Great job!
KIRK K, there are may post on here about swing bridges. Just do a search and you will get a boat load.
Here is what happens when you don't have a layout yet and get board! Something to stay in the game!
Here is another idea.
Ooooh.... Mike G, awesome idea with the linear actuator! How precise is it at the end points, do you have a simple mechanical switch that it triggers, is it stepper and may count # of steps, optical, etc? Mostly I would be worried in the down position. Also, I'm guessing you have a counterbalance of some sort to lessen the strain on the motor. Can you share the source if it was a kit, or was it hand made. In my house that'd be played with too much by the kids, and likely during operation! Very nice touch.
I did find the forum on swing gates from 2015 that I'll add here just to round out the discussion: https://ogrforum.com/...out-section-possible
Kirk
Ordinarily, I place the hinge at the top of track aligned with the track cut.. but I like the idea of an offset hinge placement where the hinge is not at the track-cut so that you can place a linear actuator in the center.
If you angle cut the rails to match the swing, that cuts down on the gap. Excellent idea.
Kirk R posted:Ooooh.... Mike G, awesome idea with the linear actuator! How precise is it at the end points, do you have a simple mechanical switch that it triggers, is it stepper and may count # of steps, optical, etc? Mostly I would be worried in the down position. Also, I'm guessing you have a counterbalance of some sort to lessen the strain on the motor. Can you share the source if it was a kit, or was it hand made. In my house that'd be played with too much by the kids, and likely during operation! Very nice touch.
I did find the forum on swing gates from 2015 that I'll add here just to round out the discussion: https://ogrforum.com/...out-section-possible
Kirk
Hi Kirk, here is a link to the post I did when I built it. It has limit switches for both up and down stop locations. Then link tells it all. If you have other questions let me know.
Kirk R posted:Hi FRIZZINBEE, I'm looking into a layout myself with a swing up like yours. What I've seen online also uses your pneumatic arm but uses these special pivot hinges instead. It's supposed to be a better hinge for these kind of applications as the pivot point is up higher a bit above the board.
https://www.sugatsune.com/prod...mp;productid=PL%2D60
I'm thinking of having 3 tracks over this section, one is an elevated outer loop with trolley line under. I'm thinking it may be to heavy to swing up so may have to swing it out like a door, if that's ever done.
That's a neat hinge - I wasn't aware that was available, and will have to keep it in mind for future applications!
mike g. posted:Frizzinbee, sure looks sweet nice work! Nice clean and easy Great job!
KIRK K, there are may post on here about swing bridges. Just do a search and you will get a boat load.
Here is what happens when you don't have a layout yet and get board! Something to stay in the game!
Wow, Mike, that is cool! I'm impressed with the use of the actuator, and was really tempted to copy your design... but we'll also be using the under layout space for storage, and would prefer to not have to have the bridge powered to lift it.
Alright, time for a quick update on the hinged bridge.
First, I went ahead and mounted the lever switches that will cut-off track power on the open side while the bridge is up (the hinged side just turns the bridge into a wall, which should also be effective at stopping trains from careening into the concrete abyss). These particular switches have screw attachments for the wires, which I like in case I need to swap parts at some point. Here they are up position that I'll use for "open":
....and here they are in the depressed position, which I will use for "closed".
Not obvious in the photos, but I installed a new hydraulic arm with more weight capacity and a longer reach. This allowed me to get the bridge up past vertical & gives a nice soft closure. In this pic, you can also see the piece attached to the bottom that depresses the lever switches:
Down position:
Up until yesterday, I fully intended to dress this bridge out as a straight-forward girder bridge... but then I got to thinking about bridge types and remembered going to see this bridge a couple years ago (Sundial Bridge, Redding, CA):
...and that led to thoughts on how cool it would be to build a cantilvered cable-stayed bridge on the layout. ...And then how I might pull it off. I did a quick cardboard mock-up, and I think this may work. I like the angle, and the placement seems about right (i.e. on one "shore"):
The "fin" is in the ballpark height-wise, and could be a good inch taller before it touches the table behind it - and even then, I could cut a well into the foam or shift the fin forward to give me a little more height if needed:
I think some white 10 awg wire might work for the cable stays - the proportions seem fairly realistic, and I even found some at Home Depot that didn't have writing on the coating. Also going to look into geting a strip of color changing LEDs to shine up on the cables and light them, so white cables large enough to reflect that light are a consideration:
-Dustin
As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, there is an advantage to having the hinge point be at or above the top of the rails - namely that when the bridge is lifted, the arc moves the ends of the rails out and away from each other. This avoids the problem of having to mess with cutting the rails at an angle or leaving a gap. I'm sure there are pictures from other bridge threads on this forum, but I didn't try to find them. Perhaps it was on Susan's website??
It should work with your offset hinge location as well - you may have to figure out how high above the top of the rails the hinge point needs to be in the offset location case. Certainly when the hinge point is right where the rails meet and just above the rail top, the initial movement in swinging the bridge up will move the rail ends apart.
As RICHS09 says there is a distinct advantage to moving the hinge point up higher, like if you were using the pivot hinges I referred to above. While it looks like it would work now when, you add roadbed and track that'll add 1/2" or so to the height above your current pivot point and could be an issue. Suggest you temporarily layout some track there now and test how your current design would fare. If an issue get those hinges.
My layout has changed somewhat so that I now must use a swing out instead of up as I have 3 tracks going over my swing section and 2 of those tracks will be a double decker. Pivot point would have to be at something like 7-8 inches high which'll look silly. So now it is planned as simple door swing out with a big fat wheel on the end to support the weight. Carpentry will need to be precise.
Dustin, I think its looking great! with your hinges set back I don't see any problems even with road bed. All your doing is transferring the same thing you have now up a 1/4".
Kirk, you could use the same method I used for my bridge, just make it wider for all your track and build supports for the upper deck! I can send you a drawing if you would like.
Mike, if you have a swing out I'd love to see it.
Hi Kirk, I do not. but I can send you a drawing of my life bridge if your interested!
sure
Kirk, there is no email in your file. email me and I will send it back!
RICHS09,
I did some testing (and I use the term loosely) before locking in this design, and you are correct that I will not be able to get away with straight cuts and no gap in this configuration. I'm confident I can get no track gap and use angle cuts, though, and I'm thinking the angle cuts will be easy enough if I lock down all the track in final config and then cut them with a dremel cutting wheel.
__________________
Kirk,
You're right- might be worth fully testing with a piece of track to fully ensure the lift will work as I think it will before I get the bridge all dressed-up and painted. I do not expect roadbed height to be an issue. The foam roadbed I've selected has some "give", so I'm not using it on this bridge or the immediate approaches in order to ensure the joints stay in alignment vertically. The wooden abutments sit ~1/4" (i.e. roadbed height) above the foam level to accommodate this transition, and I intend to screw the track directly into both them and the bridge surface. This will certainly cause greater noise as trains cross this section, but I think that's a fair trade to reduce complexity. ...Though... thinking as I type... I could always use some cork in this section to help dampen sound... hmmm.....
___________________
Mike,
Thanks! I've been pleasantly surprised with how this is coming out so far 
-Dustin
To cut down on noise further you may want to add a very thin layer of rubber, cork, even duct or electrical tape may work at locations on the horizontal portions of the two tables where the bridge will lay when down. This may act as a damper and should help cut down on any vibrations in the bridge as engines roll across. A lock that pulls the bridge down in the closed position and applies a little force to keep it down might also be helpful.
Dustin - I don't really have a dog in this hunt (as someone once said), but it seems to me the advantage of using an elevated hinge point and simply a butt joint on the track, roadbed, etc. is that its the most flexible in terms of making changes as you go along. The elevated hinge might be a bit harder to 'hide', but you'd have to find a way to hide the hinge in any event (if that is an important consideration...).
Another important consideration - independent of the hinge point - is to make sure you have a horizontal alignment method where the bridge meets the rest of the track when the bridge is down. I don't see it in the pictures you've posted (may have missed it). the lateral match is a pretty tight tolerance.
Looks like a fun project all around.
Kirk R posted:To cut down on noise further you may want to add a very thin layer of rubber, cork, even duct or electrical tape may work at locations on the horizontal portions of the two tables where the bridge will lay when down. This may act as a damper and should help cut down on any vibrations in the bridge as engines roll across. A lock that pulls the bridge down in the closed position and applies a little force to keep it down might also be helpful.
That's an interesting idea... I hadn't thought of a thin damper under the bridge itself. It would have to be very thin, as you say, but I may go back and try that if noise is an issue.
I do plan to add a lock to hold the bridge in the fully down position, and am looking at using a set of chest latches or a pair of tracked slider bars. I tried more of a standard sliding latch yesterday and the results were less an acceptable - way too much play in the connection.
richs09 posted:Dustin - I don't really have a dog in this hunt (as someone once said), but it seems to me the advantage of using an elevated hinge point and simply a butt joint on the track, roadbed, etc. is that its the most flexible in terms of making changes as you go along. The elevated hinge might be a bit harder to 'hide', but you'd have to find a way to hide the hinge in any event (if that is an important consideration...).
Another important consideration - independent of the hinge point - is to make sure you have a horizontal alignment method where the bridge meets the rest of the track when the bridge is down. I don't see it in the pictures you've posted (may have missed it). the lateral match is a pretty tight tolerance.
Looks like a fun project all around.
Very good point with respect to the flexibility inherent in a butt joint- hadn't considered that previously. At this point I don't plan to change the joint height or the support arm mount unless it becomes an issue - but if I were starting over I would probably do it with a raised hinge
As far as horizontal alignment, I installed furniture pegs in the bridge and corresponding abutment tonight. These have done a great job in eliminating lateral movement and ensuring consistent alignment. Some latches on top, as mentioned in my previous post, should control vertical movement.
Haven't had a whole lot of time to work on the layout recently, but was able to make some progress today. Here are the big things that got done...
I used the temp bridge fin as a template and cut the actual fit our of birch plywood:
...also cut our some other parts for the lift bridge and another bridge:
Here's a test fit of the piers for the other bridge I'm working on (the gray one in the foreground). Plan is to have a river flowing under the central span here. I'll eventually skin these piers with embossed brick:
Here's a test fit of the bridge fin, which is about 1/3 larger than the original test version. Cat provided for scale:
After the test fit, I got some help drilling holes for the cable stays and sanding:
We also affixed the bridge edging on the top and bottom of both long sides. We went with some spare quarter round we had handy to give it a more substantial look but also retain modern lines:
Bridge set it place to see how it looks so far. Also went ahead and applied sandable wood filler to the sides to plug gaps and nail holes:
Did a test fit of the cable in a couple positions while I was at it. In the bottom pic, you can see the cabinet latches I'm using to secure the bridge vertically and lock it in the down position.
Next for the lift bridge comes more sanding and paint. Once I get this bridge and the gray one behind it in place I can lay about 3/4 of the layout track. Did a quick count, and this layout is on pace to have 10 railroad bridges, plus one vehicle bridge... apparently I like bridges.
-Dustin
It looks real nice! Stainless cable?
Kirk R posted:It looks real nice! Stainless cable?
Nope... thought about using stainless, but decided to go with 14 gauge white wire instead. The prototype cables are white, so figured mine might as well be too and this was an easy way to do it. Plus, I'm still toying with the idea of putting a light up top and this is an easy "hide in plain sight" way to get power up there.
Dustin, things are looking really nice! I like the gray bridge in the back there! It sure looks like your bridge with the fin is going to work and look wonderful! The idea of the white 14 gauge wire is a great idea, make it easier to see the wire! Keep up the great work! Also make sure you keep your help happy, he looks like he doing a wonderful job! Maybe a raise is in order! LOL
So Dustin you did all this work painting the room. Building the layout. Building all those bridges in 45 days or so just you and the kids? Wow that's some achievement. And it looks BEAUTIFUL . Keep up the good work.
mike g. posted:Dustin, things are looking really nice! I like the gray bridge in the back there! It sure looks like your bridge with the fin is going to work and look wonderful! The idea of the white 14 gauge wire is a great idea, make it easier to see the wire! Keep up the great work! Also make sure you keep your help happy, he looks like he doing a wonderful job! Maybe a raise is in order! LOL
Thanks, Mike. I like the gray bridge, too. Not quite as exciting (or time consuming) as the fin bridge, but it really looks great when it's up on the support pillars.
E-UNIT-79 posted:So Dustin you did all this work painting the room. Building the layout. Building all those bridges in 45 days or so just you and the kids? Wow that's some achievement. And it looks BEAUTIFUL . Keep up the good work.
Thanks, I appreciate the compliment! We're making steady progress, but it's definitely doesn't feel like quick process. Some days it feels like a slog (like when we were wiring - bleh), so we make it a rule to not work on the layout when we don't genuinely want to so it doesn't become a chore 
I can't claim to have built all the bridges we'll use in the last ~45 days... a couple I had already or were carry-overs from our last layout (like the big silver truss bridge).
-------------------------------------------
...Today was an example of limited progress as we focused on other projects. I did do some sanding and got the first coat of paint on the fin bridge. Finish is not as smooth as I'd like, so I'm going to lightly sand once this coat hardens and then hit it again with gloss white:
...in the background of the above pic you can see I also painted the bases of the support piers for the gray bridge
Looking good Dustin!
Dustin,
Very cool lift bridges, here is the one Mike G made and sent to me for my Train Room. At this point I am no where near ready to insert it into my layout. 2 More 4x8 3/4 sheets of Ply Wood and a lot of other building, before we consider the exact engineering required to install it into the Train Room layout.
PCRR/Dave
Great stuff, Dustin!
Peter
Alright, time for another quick update! No major work accomplished, but I did get a few things done around the layout that will enable some big leaps.
The lift bridge is now fully painted white & the abutments blue/gray. I also have the cable stays half installed... they are secured into the fin but have not been tightened and secured to the underside of the bridge yet.
Here's another angle. Should look pretty sweet once the "cables" are tight:
Here's another look at the gray bridge. Over here, I painted the support piers (where they will show) and added the primary foal "walls" to the canyon. Don't have the bridge locked in place yet, pending exact track placement and finish work on the piers. In the foreground is a Plasticville watch tower that we revamped a couple years ago:
Used a wash & added mortar to some JTT stamped brick sheets, which will be used in the support piers above to make them look more realistic:
"A River Runs Through It"... I now have a river cutting through part of the town, which not only adds interest but justifies 4 bridges (2 train, 1 auto, 1 pedestrian):
Added some more insulation walls to other low-lying areas. Will add some more layers then make them look like rock later... for now just trying to get all the foundational stuff in so we can get the track down:
...and just for fun, here's 2 MTH trailers that I dressed up a little more for the old layout. Looking forward to getting the trailer park back up and running
-Dustin
Dustin, the bridge is coming right along! I really like the deep levels you are building below track level! I'm looking forward to seeing how they progress!
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