transformer and controller questions

looks like i would have to buy the command base as well as the cab-1 controller which looks like min of $200 on ebay

No, you just need a PM-1 PowerMaster for each district you want to control.  In your case, substituting the PM-1 for the PowerStation controller(keep the PowerMaster) will let you control the train with the CAB-1.

 

This is TMCC "conventional" control.  No Command Base needed. 

 

When you get into CAB-1 control of switches & accessories, then a CB is needed, as it is to get command operation from TMCC & Legacy locos.

Layout size is a start on what you need for power. How many engines and lighted cars you plan to run at once is more telling though.

Run a couple long Passenger trains? Go big.

The Z-4000 is the Biggest UL listed train transformer that exists.

I have only one gripe about it, you must move the output handles to zero and back up every time you power the system up.

It is not the only solution though, 4 Lionel bricks can exceed it's wattage easily. and 4 MTH Z-1000 bricks can match it. And you can buy more bricks as you need them.

For running multiple trains, Command control is easier than conventional but it can be done with isolated rails and relays too.

As far as Command Systems, Cab 1's (TMCC system) are getting hard to get.

You might want to go for a Cab 2 in a Legacy system. Or an MTH DCS system, Or BOTH.

I run DCS and TMCC using MTH bricks into the DCS TIU, so far one 100 watt and one 75 watt are plenty. The 100 watt brick also powers my switches with it's 14V fixed output.

There are also good transformers from other companies.

So as you see, the options are many and varied.  Have Fun !!!

haha wow that all sounds greek to me lol. ya i wana run my aba with 7 pass cars and prob 3-4 other train sets

Hi Brandon

 

There could be more than one right answer to your power needs.  Which ones are the best value largely depends on what trains you will have in the future and how you prefer to run them.

 

Some folks are die hard conventional operators. They like running their trains, even new trains with sound and command control, with good old variable voltage control.

 

Others love command control and once they get used to it find it hard to live without.

 

Command control trains have the advantage that your power supply doesn't have to have variable voltage.  The MTH DCS command set also has the further advantage that you can use two of its 4 channels to provide variable voltage control from the walk around hand held for conventional trains without buying any additional hardware.

 

For about 50 years the Lionel ZW was the benchmark big power supply.  Since the late 90s the MTH Z-4000 has become the defacto standard to which all others are compared.  The Z-4000 is a good choice for conventional or command control operations.  It has a good track record of reliability and parts support for the few parts that occasionally wear or fail.  It has a nice throttle as well as built in whistle and bell buttons for conventional operations.  It is also a very good power supply for command control.  In either command or conventional the built in digital amp and volt meters are very nice to have.  Passenger trains with light bulbs can really eat amps and one locomotive with sound and smoke and pull 2 to 3 amps.  With the meters you know where you are.  For the size layout you are talking about building many folks use a Z-4000 or bricks and use a smaller transformer like your Powerhouse set for switches or accessories.

 

If you are in the Seattle area and haven't been there yet I'd recommend making a trip to Eastside Trains in Kirkland.  I like working with the guys at the repair counter, Bob and Dustin.  They know the products inside and out.  Ask them about your power supply options.  If the Lionel repair technician recommends a MTH product it's a recommendation worth considering. 

Brandon,

Ted Hikel tells it like it is. I'd like to add one more thing....Read. Read as much as you can get your hands on. There are many books on O-Gauge Railroading. Remember that a person starts with small steps. I've been enjoying prewar trains over fifty-five years and I'm still learning.

God Bless,

Pappy

TCA TTOS

thanks ted i will check them out for sure. what are bricks everyone keeps refering to?  i see your in monroe, did you make it to the train show this weekend? I went both days was my first show and loved it, picked up some rolling stock and some engines 

Bricks are usually considered at this point to be the Lionel 180 power supplies.  They are bricks and can be used directly to the track (if you run command only with TMCC or Legacy) or as input to a DCS's TIU input channel (one of the 4 per TIU).  You can also use bricks as input to Lionel's new transformer to permit conventional operation. In my case I started with my Post War ZW and after burning out a couple of electronics boards, I added fuses, then retired them to lights and purchased a Z4000.  After I ran out of power with the Z4000, I added two more, an MRC Pure Power, and 4 Lionel bricks to power up my 15 loops. I lean towards the Z4000 and MRC because of the amp meters and an issue with Lionel's ZW that needed a chip upgrade to work with Legacy (Marty did a video of how to apply the fix - I think it was he); however, I think the new Lionel ZW may have that as well.

Can you tell me about this chip upgrade to run Legacy with the ZW-Controller?  I have one of the original ones, but I'm not using it right now with Legacy, however I plan to soon.

If you can't find a better deal than that, you might as well save a few more pennies and get a Legacy set.  I was able to get a good command base/cab-1 for $60 and I didn't have a Legacy engine so it made sense to wait for Legacy.  If you have or are contemplating purchasing a Legacy engine, I wouldn't spend that much on a TMCC set.

If you wait a couple of months for Lionel to fill the Legacy pipeline again, the Legacy #990 set should be in the $260-270 range again.  That's what I paid for mine in 2010 before the shortage.

Marty E. Tips and Tricks ZW Chip Upgrade

Thanks, I guess a call to Lionel is in order to get the chip.  

This is a Z-1000 controller and brick.

My experience is that the MTH Z-4000 operates well with all train systems due to it's pure sine wave output....

 

Newer Lionel power tend to have PWM (Pulse width modulation) output which is OK for Lionel, but not good for some other Train Power systems....

 

MTH Z-4000 works well for Lionel units and all others too....

 

Just my take on past problem solutions......

 

Dennis M from GBay, WI.

 

PS:   I have two Z-4000s.....

 

Anyone want to sell a comand base and cab1? I see now what bricks are I thought it was transformer lol

Actually, the brick *is* the transformer. In the Z1000 pic above, the part that says "Rail King" is the controller (voltage, horn/whistle/bell, and reverse).  The thing that looks like a ...  well, a brick is the "transformer".  If you are feeding a DCS TIU, you don't need a controller.

Gotcha so when hooking bricks to the track do you just cut the plug off the end of wire that usually plugs into the  controller and solxer sfrait to track?

That is what I did.  There is also a piece from Lionel that does have to leads so that you do not have to mess up the 180 brick that just plugs into the the brick output plastic device.

If you want to use DCS, MTH sells an adapter that converts the barrel plug on the output of the bricks to a pair of banana plugs, which plug right into the TIU (Base of the DCS system), I'm not sure if it fits the plug on Lionels bricks or not.

The TIU will also take plain wires in.

The MTH Z-1000 bricks are available separate at a lower cost than an entire controller set.

If you wire the track direct from Lionels system (conventional or Command), you can still add DCS in passive mode just by tying the red output of any channel to the center rail and the black to the outer rails, then power the TIU with a small input on Fixed 1 in or Via the Aux power port (12-18VAC 1amp)

Make sure you know if you want TMCC or DCS (MTH).  You should wire your layout somewhat differently if you go with DCS.  If you go with DCS, you can add a TMCC command base and run TMCC at the same time at a later time.

 

Making the decision now makes sense if you want to remote switch your turnouts.  Different equipment is used if you are primarily DCS or TMCC.  If you are primarily TMCC, you might choose dz-2500 and associated equipment, but if DCS, you might choose AIUs and either dz-2500s or dz-1000s, depending on certain issues not related to command and control.

 

Check the command control forums for DCS and TMCC/Legacy.

 

Mike

No, I didn't go to the show at the fairgrounds this past weekend.  I see that Noel Holley spoke on Saturday.  If you have any interest in the Milwaukee Road take every opportunity you can to hear Noel Holley. 

 

When you visit Eastside Trains be sure to introduce your self to Bob in the repair department and tell him I sent you.  There are some neat O gauge get togethers in the area and Bob can get you in the loop.  That might be a nice way for you to see what others are doing, get some ideas for your layout and test drive Legacy and DCS.

John. I have one in stock that I can send you at 25% off list plus shipping. I will be alot less then the $9.00 Lionel charges to ship.

With email addresses, it's hard to find out how to contact people.  Please send me an email at gunrunnerjohn <at> gmx.com with details.

I'll drop you a line shortly with price.

the short answer on what a brick is.  a brick is a transformer that does not have an adjustable output, they put out 17 to 18 volts. 

 

http://www.lionel.com/products..._590/6-22983_568.jpg

 

http://www.lionel.com/products/finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-22983&CatalogUID=8A4FEE3C-9A9F-17BE-9B6ADB8FAF096B49&PageID=1951

E-mail has been sent with price and phone number.

Brandon,

 All the advise you got here was great,and I don't disagree with any of it.

 Now let me tell you what I would do if you have never run many trains, or bought any power supplies.

 

I would install me a simple loop of track around all of that space, or if you don't have enough track, use what you have. Don't install any switches or uncoupling tracks yet. Now you will see where you need more power to the track, and you can add wires from the transformer or from one of the 2 wires you ran under the table, one for the center rail, and one for the outside, I find I need track taps about ever 10 feet, you may not. 

 

Stay away from command control for the moment, you can add this easily after you are up and running,more can be told on this later.

 

For a transformer I would choose a good checked out "ZW", I say checked out I mean it has a good or new power to the wall wire, good whistle controls, and a good supply of power to the track. Later if you add a new power supply (transformer) you can use the Z for accessories or lights.

 

 

Please remember this is what I would do, go slow , and enjoy  and learn as you go. You're going to have a world of fun, and the folks on here will always help you, just ask??

 

 

Rod