Turntable without a roundhouse?

I don't have one on my layout, but there is a prototypical one in the BNSF yard in Belen, NM.

It feeds a maintenance facility/pit

You can check it out on google maps satellite view.

Don't have any photos of a model but here's a real turntable without a roundhouse at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum. 

You are correct.  RHs take up a lot of real estate!  My layout has five TTs but only two of them have a single stall engine house.   I only need TTs to spin engines at the end of each branch line, not for modeling prototypical purposes.

However, to best model a full service steam facility it would be best to some how include some form of a RH.

John Armstrong has a book setting out various ways you can compress the facilities by adjusting the degrees of separation, length of approach tracks and frogs at the TT.

If you flip the RH 180 degrees to be alongside the approach tracks the length can be reduced.

Some samples w/o RH on my layout:

Below view in staging room.

I recently added storage tracks by fashioning an finger arc add on:

Are there not any storage tracks?  The round house does not need to be directly across from the lead track.  

Both Lionel and MTH make single and multi-engine sheds that are narrow and may work on your whisker tracks. I have two of the Lionel hopper sheds (6-37913) placed end to end on a siding which look good, to me anyway.

In Iberia, LA, the MoPac had a TT and a 2-stall roundhouse--yes, the stalls were angled, two very small slices of a pie ;-).

Thanks a lot for all the great help! I am doing some more measuring but I think if I flip it 180 and put it along the approach tracks that will do the trick!  I also may have an area for a staging room. And I am going to check out the multi engine sheds too I was only looking at the Atlas roundhouse but other options may work.  Thanks all!   Roger 

You don't need an engine house or roundhouse with a TT.     There were many prototype facilities at the end of branches or on shortlines that had TTs in steam days, but not buildings for service.    There are also many shortline and branchline facilities that had 1 or 2 stall engine houses in stead of TTs.     

From a prototype perspective, TTs take up less space than a wye, although more expensive to buy and maintain.   A TT lets you get a lot more parking places with fewer switches.    But in steam days, it was very inconvenient to run a steamer backwards for long distances.    The speed had to be reduced and the visibility issues were there.    Also the coal dust from the tender blew into the cab - -   So even many small roads would put in TTs to allow turning.     Once GP diesels became common, TTs faded away and are pretty much gone.    A shortline with a GP7 or 9 had no big reason to turn it, even though the controls might be a little inconvenient.   

Just don't name the town Altoona, or Conway, or Enola!

A final note, someone did an article where they put the roundhouse and TTnext to a wall.     They only had 2 usable stalls I think but the facade of the roundhouse wrapped around against the wall and there were dummy stalls along that part, some with tenders only.    

Both the Fonda, Johnstown & Gloversville RR and the Lowville & Beaver River RR had turntables (armstrong variety) without roundhouses in Broadalbin and Lowville  respectively

I had room for the turntable but not the roundhouse, So I built the roundhouse foundation, minus the back.  I did that to show where the roundhouse was. The roundhouse was removed to make way for the new main tracks.

I've kicked this idea around a couple of times. This is the TT/roundhouse at Neuenmarkt Museum in Germany. It's interesting because it's a partial arc of travel, not a full turntable  -  space-saving by the prototype which was probably squeezed for real estate, just like we are.

An extra spacesaver might be cutting off the back of the roundhouse and only using the outside stalls, leaving dummy locomotive fronts poking out of the doors. This has been done in HO scale by Bob Boudreau - https://sites.google.com/site/...thernrr/home/modules

The Southern Pacific Railroad had a 20 or so mile branch line which went from Ventura, California to Ojai, California.  At the track termination point in Ojai there was a turntable.  There were no locomotive servicing facilities nor buildings but it served only to reverse the locomotive.  The branch line tracks were removed decades ago (now a bike path) but the concrete turntable pit remains. 

I have an Atlas turntable on one end of my 4'x12' layout but no roundhouse. I have room for three spurs, each ends with a lighted PW bumper and the longest can hold a #736 Berk. I'm happy with it.

Here's mine with a single stall shed:

This side of  the layout is 36" wide with the TT at one end of the yard.

I've found the shed is of no use to me and may remove it in the future.

Firewood posted:

I've kicked this idea around a couple of times. This is the TT/roundhouse at Neuenmarkt Museum in Germany. It's interesting because it's a partial arc of travel, not a full turntable  -  space-saving by the prototype which was probably squeezed for real estate, just like we are.

An extra spacesaver might be cutting off the back of the roundhouse and only using the outside stalls, leaving dummy locomotive fronts poking out of the doors. This has been done in HO scale by Bob Boudreau - https://sites.google.com/site/...thernrr/home/modules

Leave it to the Germans to come up with a fascinating bit of engineering. The pivot point is offset (by a lot!) from the center of the turntable bridge. 

Lots of options for this. You could have a painting/photo of the roundhouse on a backdrop using a photo printer and Photoshop to create the backdrop. Or, you could just model the front of the Roundhouse in front of a backdrop. 

I use double stall engine sheds with some staging tracks. That way the turntable and engine facilities don't need to be right next to each other.

George

Bob Delbridge posted:

Here's mine with a single stall shed:

This side of  the layout is 36" wide with the TT at one end of the yard.

I've found the shed is of no use to me and may remove it in the future.

More layout pics please?

Here's my Bowser 24" turntable that I have been including on my last 4 layouts without a roundhouse. It works well for me particularly now in my compact space:

This is a typical end-of-line TT on a Canadian National branch. The layout is S scale based on the real Port Rowan on Lake Erie. 

http://themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s/?p=1101

Thank you for all the comments and pictures. I ordered it last night and it is definitely going in. Probably with a shed or two when I get around to that. It looks good in your layout Stangtrain and Bob Delbridge! 

Roger

Some passenger coach yards had a TT to turn observation cars.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Some passenger coach yards had a TT to turn observation cars.

What railroads and where?

geysergazer posted:

Firewood posted:

I've kicked this idea around a couple of times. This is the TT/roundhouse at Neuenmarkt Museum in Germany. It's interesting because it's a partial arc of travel, not a full turntable  -  space-saving by the prototype which was probably squeezed for real estate, just like we are.

An extra spacesaver might be cutting off the back of the roundhouse and only using the outside stalls, leaving dummy locomotive fronts poking out of the doors. This has been done in HO scale by Bob Boudreau - https://sites.google.com/site/...thernrr/home/modules

Leave it to the Germans to come up with a fascinating bit of engineering. The pivot point is offset (by a lot!) from the center of the turntable bridge. 

The NYC West Shore line had at least two turntables without roundhouses at Tappan and Haverstraw .  I believe the Eire's turntable at Suffern was devoid of a roundhouse as well.  These were not service facilities, rather used to facilitate turning locomotives a the end of commuter runs. 

CSX's Russell Ky. locomotive facility has a large turntable without a roundhouse around it.

They tore down the wooden roundhouse back in the 1980's and kept the tracks . But they have an engine house with three or four track that curve into it with switches from a few tracks aligned with the turntable.

My Granddad , Dad and half brother all worked there .

I'm sure you can  google pictures of it. 

stangtrain posted:

Here's my Bowser 24" turntable that I have been including on my last 4 layouts without a roundhouse. It works well for me particularly now in my compact space:

That's great use of space . Would love to see more pictures of the layout .

How about a two stall engine house like this. Or a single stall long engine house. Found this old kit on E-bay. This old turntable in the Sacramento Locomotive Shop of Southern Pacific was only used to turn engines. Don

Lacking space for a roundhouse but needing a place to store and turn locos, I took the approach Bob Deldridge did (above on the coal elevator side), and curved the tracks so they are parallel.  I was able to squeeze in over a dozen tracks on each side of the TT, on a peripheral table slightly wider than the TT's diameter  The lead comes across a drawbridge from the main layout.

An interesting anecdote about turntables existing only to turn engines.  The DL&W had a turntable out near the end of electrified commuter service in NJ (Summit NJ?).  It was long enough to turn passenger steam engines.  In late December 1947, a severe blizzard hit the area (I remember it well--all road traffic in north Hudson County stopped, and commuters were taking the ferries across the North River and then walking miles to get home). 

The storm killed catenary power, so the MU cars required steam engines to pull them on the commuter routes.  But the RR didn't have enough passenger locos, and had to press into service longer freight engines.  These could not fit the turntable, so in one direction locos had to run backwards, causing the coal dust to blow over the engine crew.  Of course, with no catenary power, the MU cars had no means of heat, so the commuters had to really dress warmly.

RJR posted:

An interesting anecdote about turntables existing only to turn engines.  The DL&W had a turntable out near the end of electrified commuter service in NJ (Summit NJ?).  It was long enough to turn passenger steam engines.  In late December 1947, a severe blizzard hit the area (I remember it well--all road traffic in north Hudson County stopped, and commuters were taking the ferries across the North River and then walking miles to get home). 

The storm killed catenary power, so the MU cars required steam engines to pull them on the commuter routes.  But the RR didn't have enough passenger locos, and had to press into service longer freight engines.  These could not fit the turntable, so in one direction locos had to run backwards, causing the coal dust to blow over the engine crew.  Of course, with no catenary power, the MU cars had no means of heat, so the commuters had to really dress warmly.

A bad day for everybody!  

Number 90 posted:

RJR posted:

An interesting anecdote about turntables existing only to turn engines.  The DL&W had a turntable out near the end of electrified commuter service in NJ (Summit NJ?).  It was long enough to turn passenger steam engines.  In late December 1947, a severe blizzard hit the area (I remember it well--all road traffic in north Hudson County stopped, and commuters were taking the ferries across the North River and then walking miles to get home). 

The storm killed catenary power, so the MU cars required steam engines to pull them on the commuter routes.  But the RR didn't have enough passenger locos, and had to press into service longer freight engines.  These could not fit the turntable, so in one direction locos had to run backwards, causing the coal dust to blow over the engine crew.  Of course, with no catenary power, the MU cars had no means of heat, so the commuters had to really dress warmly.

A bad day for everybody!  

But, as was typical for the time, the railroads made every effort to keep running.  Unlike today when service is stopped at the mere mention of inclement weather.

I found what appeared to be an abandoned one near Lincoln Ne while search for something in aviation.

There was no tell-tale evidence of a roundhouse ever being there. It didn't look like it was still in use, but the old Havelock shops were nearby. That was only a few years ago and shows up on google maps. So, prototypical, I would say yes.

#90 & ECD15.  I can still picture that storm.  Bergenline Avenue was a major N-S artery, usually with 4 lanes of traffic, plus buses and trackless trolleys.  No vehicles could move, but I can recall late at night, hordes of pedestrians heading North, having walked up from the West Shore RR ferry terminal, trudging as the snow came down.  Plows were stuck.

027runner posted:

i finally starting my new layout and thought I would have so much room and always wanted a turntable and roundhouse.  As I am working on my plan I find I didn’t realize how much space a roundhouse takes and I just can’t fit that in.  Does anyone have a turntable and maybe just a small loco shed or other idea on a stand alone turntable on your layout?   

   Thanks,   Roger

I have two. No roundhouse or engine sheds, and I never even considered any...

Roger, the branch line I’m modeling and prototype had a turntable but no shed. It did have parallel tracks for engine storage after they were turned. 

Andy

Frostburg, MD has a turntable with only a railroad station.   Western Maryland Scenic Railroad. 

After I built my 30" turntable I didn't have room for a roundhouse in the 2'X5' area I had for locomotive storage. So I built and am currently in the process of finishing a 22"X34" engine house. So that's an option if you don't have the space for a roundhouse like I didn't. 

To turn a locomotive, you only have to turn it half way, 180 degrees, and one way,  so maybe can get by with slightly more than half the width of a turntable...that German example is very intriguing.

As with the prototypes, there are creative solutions for turning steam locos or even observation cars. That German one is quite unique.