Union Pacific lays off 500 Managers, 250 other rail workers

Matches the slow down in rail traffic, beyond coal, as noted in the last several issues of Trains...can't remember exactly the specific issue. Hopefully the economy really picks up and rail traffic follows.

Slow down?? Taken from Railway Age...

"For the first 32 weeks of this year, U.S. railroads reported cumulative volume of 8,260,255 carloads, up 5.1%, and 8,513,076 intermodal units, up 3.2%. Total combined U.S. traffic was 16,773,331 carloads and intermodal units, an increase of 4.2%."

Casey, what those numbers don't tell you is that traffic was down the last two years by double-digit percentages. Those small gains don't come close to getting traffic back where it was before the slow-down.

OGR Webmaster posted:

Casey, what those numbers don't tell you is that traffic was down the last two years by double-digit percentages. Those small gains don't come close to getting traffic back where it was before the slow-down.

That is exactly what happens in the stock market when a company goes from $100 to $50 and 6 months later when it is at $75 the say it "Rose 50%" and while it did, it missed returning to break even by 50%! You can manipulate statistics

Certain Union Pacific employees can avoid layoffs with early retirements, buyouts.

Employees of a certain age and with enough tenure at the company have some control over their destiny before Union Pacific begins layoffs, according to a memo obtained by The World-Herald.

Employees eligible for early retirement include those who are 65 as of Sept. 30, or employees who are at least 55 years old and have at least 10 years of “vesting service” under U.P.  ’s pension plan.

Other employees who do not satisfy the age and service requirements for early retirement can apply for buyouts the railroad has termed “enhanced severance.” Benefits specific to the buyout include “tenure-based cash payment, pro rata stock vesting, cash bonus and outplacement services.”

Click here to watch video  /  Note: You will have to watch a local commercial before the video starts. Reporter: Cole Epley reports on how this will affect the employees and the local economy.  

Source: By Cole Epley / World-Herald staff writer / Omaha / Aug 17, 2017 Updated at 10.00 AM RMT

Gary

OGR Webmaster posted:

Casey, what those numbers don't tell you is that traffic was down the last two years by double-digit percentages. Those small gains don't come close to getting traffic back where it was before the slow-down.

Rich,

Thank you for that context. That is what I was referring.   Much appreciated. 

When does it become time to worry that the Steam Program may be viewed as an unjustifiable and unnecessary expense?

Unless you work for one of these class one railroads.... you have no idea what a bunch of BS this crap is. Railroading is not a career job any more!

Laidoffsick posted:

Unless you work for one of these class one railroads.... you have no idea what a bunch of BS this crap is. Railroading is not a career job any more!

Can you elaborate a little bit on your statement please?  I don't quite understand.

Companies lay off when things turn down.  It's a fact of life.

Been through three layoffs over my working life, including one at a company that "never had a layoff."  Survived one of the three layoffs.

Rusty

Nick Chillianis posted:

When does it become time to worry that the Steam Program may be viewed as an unjustifiable and unnecessary expense?

Now.

Budkole posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

Unless you work for one of these class one railroads.... you have no idea what a bunch of BS this crap is. Railroading is not a career job any more!

Can you elaborate a little bit on your statement please?  I don't quite understand.

Would love to but unfortunately I can't. Mentioning my employer followed by negative comments in a public forum or social media subjects me to discipline and/or termination.

A few weeks ago I showed up for work on Sunday morning and my engineer was in a closed door meeting with the Sup Ops and head of HR for comments he made on social media... yes on Sunday morning. He came from the corporate office who read the comments on social media before they were deleted.

Our corporate leaders wanted to know why someone with 28 years of service and a clean record was so unhappy with his home terminal.

Big brother is watching and listening everywhere! 

We have the right to our opinion and may say/write our opinion anywhere we choose, AS LONG AS WE DONT mention my big orange employer by name. Ha ha. 

I thought the economy was growing, why all the down sizing?

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

I thought the economy was growing, why all the down sizing?

Liers figure, and figures lie.

Laidoffsick posted:

Budkole posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

Unless you work for one of these class one railroads.... you have no idea what a bunch of BS this crap is. Railroading is not a career job any more!

Can you elaborate a little bit on your statement please?  I don't quite understand.

Would love to but unfortunately I can't. Mentioning my employer followed by negative comments in a public forum or social media subjects me to discipline and/or termination.

A few weeks ago I showed up for work on Sunday morning and my engineer was in a closed door meeting with the Sup Ops and head of HR for comments he made on social media... yes on Sunday morning. He came from the corporate office who read the comments on social media before they were deleted.

Our corporate leaders wanted to know why someone with 28 years of service and a clean record was so unhappy with his home terminal.

Big brother is watching and listening everywhere! 

We have the right to our opinion and may say/write our opinion anywhere we choose, AS LONG AS WE DONT mention my big orange employer by name. Ha ha. 

To add to this, the FRA is also "watching". I know of one specific case where a Conductor posted photos on the internet, which he took will "on the job". The person at the FRA who monitors the various railroad Internet forums, saw the photos, and alerted the appropriate people on that railroad. Since it is an FRA violation to be using either a cell phone or a camera while working in train service, the individual was fired.

This is an interesting topic for sure, lots of various perspectives.

Laidoffsick posted:

We have the right to our opinion and may say/write our opinion anywhere we choose, AS LONG AS WE DONT mention my big orange employer by name. Ha ha. 

Doug,

I didn't know you were in the secret service too!   A man with many skills.

Okay so carloads aren't up to 2008 numbers but so what? The big drop is fossil fuel loadings as coal loads are down (we know why) and petroleum loads are down (pipelines).  Intermodal loadings are about flat.

Didn't a bunch of senior staff recently retire (last 5 years) from the UP and maybe now the new management is faltering?? I mean to blame the economic downturn that happened 9 years ago for layoffs now doesn't really jive.

Since carloads are down then why at the UP are trains running slower and terminal dwell times longer than 12 months ago?

http://www.railroadpm.org/home...ce%20Reports/UP.aspx

I assure you that there is one factor that contributes to most of these changes at my home terminal.... GREED. This place sets records every other month for volume, last year was an all time record. Since Jan this year we lost 30 assigned positions, regular hours, and days off. Most of those jobs are now on call....the rest are gone. 

"Greed is good, and apparently now it's legal! From Michael Douglas in Wall Street. 

It is out of control and drastically affecting all railroaders lives. And yet the big orange is still hiring trainman, with no jobs to go to once they are promoted.

With 21 years in, this is exactly why my wife and I decided to leave CA. Between all the CA BS, and my 21 years of seniority meaning absolutely NOTHING here... sure, same company in NM....but theres no spot light where I'm going, just a small hole in the wall yard where they don't send managers for break in.

People usually invest in stocks or funds that make money.  The greed is what drives companies to make good business decisions to maximize the profit.   We all like that until it affects us.

I worked for a full employment company with no layoffs for 23 years.   They repeatedly preached full employment and no layoffs to get everyone to stay.  Then they sold off my business unit to a company who does have layoffs.  By the grace of God I have survived about 12 layoffs in the last 18 years.  I survived the first one by changing jobs and taking a 33% pay cut.  I was happy to have a job.  I admit it is nerve racking on payday when you pull in the parking lot and there are empty parking spaces randomly around the lot(from people laid off).  Tough to make that 1/4 mile walk in and go find your manager and ask him " did you need to see me about anything?".

I still would rather be in the USA and capitalism,  than in ANY other country or economic system.  

• The layoffs, which represent about 8 percent of its management force, will largely hit employees in Omaha, Nebraska, where the company is based. "Union Pacific for some time has leveraged employee attrition and technology to reduce general and administrative costs," Chief Executive Officer Lance Fritz said in a statement to CNBC.

Source: CNBC • Reuters News • AP - Omaha, Nebraska  Check here for more details from CNBC

Ed Dickens: Senior Manager, Heritage Operations - (Stock Photo)

My viewpoints............. Train Room Gary

I sure hope that the Union Pacific Railroad keeps the Heritage Steam Program on board. It is an excellent source for railroad history. It also great for the O Gauge Railroading Hobby, because Lionel, MTH, Atlas and Sunset Models manufacture U.P. Models which keeps the dollars rolling for all the hobby shops. 

Gary: Rail-fan - Union Pacific Share Holder - Classic Toy Train Operator - Hard Copy Subscriber, O Gauge Railroading & YouTuber

Hot Water posted:

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

I thought the economy was growing, why all the down sizing?

Liers figure, and figures lie.

I think Hot is right.  The whole thing is smoke and mirrors.  Better than a circus.

aussteve posted:

People usually invest in stocks or funds that make money.  The greed is what drives companies to make good business decisions to maximize the profit.   We all like that until it affects us.

 

I've been buying some UP stock through the years, not to get rich but for retirement.  While I don't want extreme measures to be taken, I do want the railroad to make some money so I get something for my retirement account.  The company managers need to be good stewards of my money.  It's not greed--it's common sense.  If they don't make money, they will soon be bankrupt and there will be no jobs.

Kent in SD

aussteve posted:

The greed is what drives companies to make good business decisions to maximize the profit.

Good business decisions are what maximizes profits.

Greed usually results in short term gain, then take the money and run and leave behind long term disaster in the wake.

Rusty

What's a liers?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Hot Water posted:

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

I thought the economy was growing, why all the down sizing?

Liers figure, and figures lie.

I think Hot is right.  The whole thing is smoke and mirrors.  Better than a circus.

I have observed in the past that slowing rail shipping or shipping in general is usually a leading indicator of a slowing economy.  Perhaps shippers and cargo companies see a slow down first and react.

However, rail may just being hit with a changing economy - coal to gas, oil to pipelines, oil and coal to solar, container ships sailing directly to the east coast through the now wider Panama canal, fewer grain exports (?), etc.  There are many factors outside of any railroad's management control that affect its business.

NH Joe

Two23 posted:

aussteve posted:

People usually invest in stocks or funds that make money.  The greed is what drives companies to make good business decisions to maximize the profit.   We all like that until it affects us.

 

I've been buying some UP stock through the years, not to get rich but for retirement.  While I don't want extreme measures to be taken, I do want the railroad to make some money so I get something for my retirement account.  The company managers need to be good stewards of my money.  It's not greed--it's common sense.  If they don't make money, they will soon be bankrupt and there will be no jobs.

 

Kent in SD

Do you really think these class one railroads are not making money??? My employer has not failed to show a profit in a single quarter in the 20+ years I've been here. They used to send out quarterly news letters bragging about how much they made, BUT there was still room for more and the employees still had too many reportable injuries. Lucky for all of us, they stopped sending out that insulting letters a few years ago.

Two23 your statement is typical of a stockholder, and not an actual employee who is responsible for getting the work done that leads to those record profits every quarter!

Started a career in HR management in the late '60's. That was at the tail end of the paternalistic, life time employment model. Hardly anyone was fired. The tectonic plates began shifting under employees' feet, starting in the late '70's. Tougher performance standards were imposed.  By the '90's, the corporate business model being strived for was a core of senior managers, with contract people orbiting around them. The contract people were easily dismissed, benefit costs were kept low, and law suits minimized, as they were contractors. So, "careers" with one employer have become anachronisms. For many workers, they are trapped in a "gig" economy.  Not a rosy situation.    Railroads, as employers, are in tandem with current practices.

And this does not even factor the coming robotic/computerization revolution.  Fasten your seat belts.

I wonder when UPS would buy two railroads?  One in the East, one in the West.

Exit Question:  why so many managers in Omaha.  Should they closer to the field?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I wonder when UPS would buy two railroads?  One in the East, one in the West.

 

Exit Question:  why so many managers in Omaha.  Should they closer to the field?

maybe soon/east & no

mark s posted:

 

And this does not even factor the coming robotic/computerization revolution.  Fasten your seat belts.

This is something I've given a lot of thought to, and read some great articles lately.  I don't think robots/computers are nearly as big of a deal as they're made out to be.  Today I was at a threshing bee near Fargo, ND.  I alternately fired a steam tractor or pitched shocks of wheat into the thresher.  Hard work!  I collect photos of threshing scenes from 100+ years ago, and there was typically 15 or so men in a threshing crew.  At that time there were typically two or three  families living on a section of land (i.e farms were about a quarter section.)  Today, just three men can harvest a quarter of wheat in about a day!  The horses are gone, and replaced by Case combines with heads 50 ft. wide.  Fifty feet!  In 1917 the swath was about four feet, and was slowly pulled by horses.  You need one guy to run the combine, one to run the grain cart, and one to drive the semi-truck to the elevator.  That equates to a loss of at least 12 jobs per quarter, or nearly 50 per section!  Just 100 years ago something like 75% of U.S. jobs were on the farm.  Today it's about 1.4%.  In other words, about 74% of the jobs we started the century with were gone within one life time!   During the last century there was massive job loss due to automation, and yet we aren't suffering at all.  Railroads are very similar over the same period.  So, why is that?  As old types of jobs disappear, entirely new ones are created.  When I graduated from college my first job was store manager of a record store.  My second job was salesrep to independent drugstores and small chains.  Both jobs no longer exist, and yet I'm as fully employed as ever.  My oldest son (28) works in a bank in the IT dept.  My youngest son (20) just landed a $70K/yr job as a computer game programmer for Microsoft.  Neither of these jobs existed when they were born just a couple of decades ago.  The official government employment statistics bear all this out.  The lay-off rate (currently mostly from jobs becoming obsolete) is about equal to the newly created jobs.  Automation has been replacing human jobs for the past 200 years.  It's nothing new, and as long as you stay flexible (move to where the new jobs are and or retrain yourself), you'll be fine.

Kent in SD 

Laidoffsick posted:

Two23 your statement is typical of a stockholder, and not an actual employee who is responsible for getting the work done that leads to those record profits every quarter!

Note I never said UP wasn't making money.  And, instead of putting my retirement money into UP, I could just have easily used it to buy more farm land.  Where would UP be if people sold the stock and did something else with that money?  There needs to be a balance.

Kent in SD

UP will not cut the steam heritage program because it is the UP's legacy running their Locos on their railroad and with their own rolling stock. If UP wanted to cut their Steam program, wouldn't they have done it in 2013 before getting 4014 back?

The new ethane/ethylene cracker plant here in the Beaver Valley is projected to employ 800. The property was Zinc Corp of America and before that St Joe lead. Both employed a lot more, as did all the heavy metal industry, Pittsburgh, PA.  Times change, a college degree would be a good thing, but you will probably still get dirt under your finger nails sometime in your life. 

Kent in SD, we were still cutting oats on the family farm late 1960's with a 5 ft. pull-behind combine.  It is amazing/scary to look at how much and how fast things have changed. Going back, save for that nostalgia of the summer fairs, is not an option.  Five farm kids, all with college degrees. 

SDIV Tim posted:

UP will not cut the steam heritage program because it is the UP's legacy running their Locos on their railroad and with their own rolling stock. If UP wanted to cut their Steam program, wouldn't they have done it in 2013 before getting 4014 back?

All it would take is a change in management or management philosophy, regardless of financial investment in the program.

Rusty

Source: AP & Omaha World-Harald / Omaha, Nebraska

Full steam ahead for the Heritage Operation, at Cheyenne, Wyoming & Passenger Trains at, Omaha, Nebraska.

Great News for Rail-fans & Model Railroaders: Gary

How the heck did they end up with 500 managers they don't need, in the first place. Someone needs to go back and look at hiring and staffing practices.

It is just crazy that they could have that many surplus people in management. I wonder how many more managers they could dispose of that will not be missed. Sounds like someone should have started cleaning house years ago.

 I wish our City government and local school district would both do the same thing.

I suspect UP is doing this the same way my employer and most others do it; dump the work that was handled by these 500 former managers on those who are left.

Kind of standard operating practice for companies these days.  Have to increase that value for the shareholders you know.

Curt

mowingman posted:

How the heck did they end up with 500 managers they don't need, in the first place...

CSX just laid off over 1,000 middle management people. I suspect that's the more correct term to use here, too. They were likely not all "managers."