Unknown 4-4-2 kit

Not sure, but it kinda looks like an All Nation.

I dont' think it is an All Nation or predecessor General Models.   The frame, cyclinders, and lead truck do not look like any AN I have seen.   AN used the same lead truck on the 4 wheel lead trucks I think - 4-4-0, 4-6-0, 4-4-2, and 4-8-2.  

Is the boiler cast bronze or fabricated brass?   AN and General all have Cast boilers that I have seen.

It looks like a lot of Machining too.    I wonder if it is a scratchbuild project?

Also, the International Models Corp kits had stamped brass frames, so it does not seem to be one of those either.   

The series wound motor probably dates it to pre-1960 at the latest.   

Pearce & Hines were a couple of more manufacturers of kits.  Maybe?

Lobaugh ?Max Gray ? A couple more.

Seeing as I'm not conversant with historic O scale offerings, I haven't a clue.

BUT...

It sure has nice lines.  Suspect some clean up, re-powering, and such, and it could be a fine looking model.

Notice the rust on the top and the cab.  The shell is some kind of iron/steel.

The motor has wires off each brush and off each side of motor
(four wires total).  Do you know how to test the motor (where to apply power)?

Scratchbuilt.  Probably Lobaugh drivers, but not sure.

It is a "series wound" motor as opposed to a permag motor.   You can easily run a series wound on AC like Lionel, a permag works best on DC.

I think you connect one brush and one side of the motor windings to one pole of the transformer and the other brush and windings to the other pole.   To reverse, you reverse the wires on the windings.    I THINK that is how it works.   

The cab looks Varney-ish.  Could this be it, with a different trailing truck?  http://www.liveauctioneers.com...4-2-steam-locomotive    (scroll down)

WoW!  Quite similar.  A few differences in the drivers and cab.  Do you think it's possible that the cab/boiler could be from a different year?

I still don't think is AN or General models.   Too much fabricated parts, and not enough cast.   Wrong domes on the boiler too.   All their stuff had cast boilers and fabricated cabs, but the cabs had holes in the roof to mount cast hatches.    Some had the cabs cast on the boilers.

I don't know much about scalecraft or Lobough kits, but this appears to be right vintage for them.  

I am pretty sure it is not a Max Grey, a little too crude in my opinion.   And all the MGs I have seen came with the super structure assembled and detailed with piping and turnings.    

Max Gray is brass, this model is NOT brass.

Varney, etc. are cast, this model is NOT cast.

See Bob2's comments above.

ChipR

I dunno........the boiler, cab, cylinders all look cast to me........and cast in brass (although oxidized a bit).

I wonder if the wheels are insulated or maybe this is an outside 3rd rail engine. I'm surprised we can't find more info on the internet since no one has come up with as definite answer.  I'll take it off your hands

Okay.  I just have to ask: what is wrong with my definite answer?  Do you not believe that O Scale has been a fertile hobby for scratch builders?  This was not a kit.  A shot of the other side of the drivers will show whether insulated or not - Henry supplied them insulated.

I believe you what is it? I guess I missed it.

To me this is a scratch built loco, and I agree with Bob except I think the cab and fire box are possibly tinplate, the colour is typical of aged tinplate,and we have some rust from the underlying steel. It could make into a nice little loco.     Stephen    (cTr....Choose the Right)

For Gregg - it is not a kit.  It was scratchbuilt.  The drivers are from Henry Pearce.

Lobaugh and Henry Pearce made an art form of the cast iron driver.  Each one had three separate machine operations on the face, and a key slot for quartering.  Other suppliers of cast iron drivers came close, but most were just whacked out with a cut across the face, one across the back, and holes bored for axles and pins.

If this were my model, I would salvage the drivers and send the rest to the recycler.

I take that back.  I would also save the domes, stack, handrail posts, and pilot.  The rest - off to the scrapper.

I don't agree with Bob2.   I think it might be OK if built and painted for your home road.   I have no idea what prototype if any.   I would test it to see if the mechanism runs OK.   I would definitely remotor it with a DC motor.   And if my father built it, I would finish it and paint it up and maybe add some detail castings for air pumps etc. 

I wouldn't be so quick to scrap it.  Perhaps the poster's father is the one that built it.  In which case it would be nice to finish it up.

As I am not a "scratch" builder and seriously doubt I will ever become one, how would I go about determining how much to ask for this "kit" to post it in the forum for selling?  Assuming only the parts you identified have value, how does one determine that value? Hope I'm not violating any forum rules here!

I apologize.  I thought you just wanted to know what it was.  Buying and selling is not my field, but I respectfully submit that an auction style format will get you more than you might think.  You cannot hold an auction here.

Oh, I thought you were interested in what it was because of the family connection.  

My opinion is that is very little value as a collector item.   Generally speaking, 2 rail is valued as the quality of the model in terms of prototype fidelity.   It is not like old old Lionel that is valued because it survived and is rare and sparks nostalgic memories. 

This piece Was probably a decent model in its day, but is not really much compared to modern models.  I would not guess to put a value on it, but in my opinion it is in the Junquer catagory.   If the price is right someone will buy it for a project, but it is not going to make you rich.

Actually, there is a segment of the 2-rail community that does have an appreciation for the bronze age models and finds them to be be good fun.  Some of this stuff sells for surprising prices!

Thank you all for your input and expertise.  Originally I had thoughts of cleaning this model up, painting it, and finding an Atlantic style tender to go with it.  I'm sure my dad didn't make this.  Later in life he started to get interested in Scale "O".  I'm sure he traded someone for this kit thinking he would finish it someday, but never got there.  If it were not so involved I would built it, but with all the "stuff" I hadn't considered like piping, accessorizing, and metal work I'm not experienced in, I think the project is more than I can handle.  I'd better stick to my other avocations and just enjoy my Lionel and HO trains when I have time.

Again, THANK YOU to all who helped me get "educated".  You guys are GREAT!