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I have recently upgraded several of my older Lionel TMCC steamers with real coal loads.  What a difference it makes in appearance, with minimal effort and cost!

I remember when Lionel was doing this on their scale steamers in the early 2000s and asked Richard Maddox at YORK why, especially when MTH was using the individual coal piece loads.  His response was the consumer preferred molded coal and didn’t want to deal with real coal loads.  Well not me!


This upgrade, along with adding cruise control and the 4 chuffs to these older steamers, really breathes a lot of new life into these older models.  

This process was really easy and thought I would share my method and results below.  I used the coal shown below (they have a store on ebay).  It comes in different sizes and tried several and blended some.  In the end, I prefer the medium size by itself.  I would suggest washing the coal first to remove the extra dust, so it will be cleaner to handle once completed.
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I first tape off with painters tape the bunker and then put a thin layer of coal down.  5365C448-66A5-4DB3-A972-DE0007655804

Out of convenience, I have been using windex mixed with Elmer’s glue mixed to almost a milk consistency. This has worked well on my older Lionel finishes, but not sure the how paint might react from other manufacturers.
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I pour little amounts of the glue solution on the pile and let it spread for a bit before adding more.  Too much and you have a mess on your hands.  One of the reasons I like to put the coal down first before pouring the solution it is can really saturate the pile.



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At this point, I then remove the tape and make corrections to any coal that moved.  Then clean up the extra solution with a dry paper towel and also additional paper towels with windex if needed.

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Let dry for a day and you have a solid coal pile.  Extra dried glue can be easily cleaned up now with a little windex on a paper towel.  

The reason I like this method is it is not permanent if you make a mistake.  By re adding the windex to the dried coal load and letting it set in for a few minutes,  it can then be recovered and pulled up.  I did this a few times as I was making the pile to tall initially and it looked funny.  The trick being to keep the addition coal as thin as possible to prevent large coal load piles.  Some piles pull up easier than others, for example the S2 and Class A, released really easy, where as the berk’s molded coal load was more aggressive in texture and did not release as well, but could be picked out.  

Shown below is a do over with the Class A load and working to pull it up.F1AF9232-8B54-44FA-ADC8-065894690C7E

Regardless, here are the final result of the engines I did.  They came out really nice!

kline hudson-

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lionel PRR S-2

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- lionel Class A

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lionel NKP berk

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lionel C&O hudson

    Keep in mind on this one, be sure to remove the molded coal load and build the coal up off the engine as there are controls underneath it.  Another option might be to just have a small piece of styrene be used as a new base and build it up from there.

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Last edited by Hump Yard Mike
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I remember when Lionel was doing this on their scale steamers in the early 2000s and asked Richard Maddox at YORK why, especially when MTH was using the individual coal piece loads.  His response was the consumer preferred molded coal and didn’t want to deal with real coal loads.  Well not me!




Good example even back then that Lionel doesn't understand their consumer base.

Nice job by the way.  I so need to do this to my Kline Berkshires.

How good is the bond? My question is for those of us who don't have a lot of yard space and need to instead box up their some of their steam power for storage to allow rotating in other locomotives. My stuff typically goes back into the factory boxes and onto the shelf.  Would these loads tend to pop or peel off for this? Thanks!

Your results look good. I'm guessing the windex is to break up surface tension, like Kodak photo-flo or detergent, right?  I use dilute detergent and matte medium for scenery work, and would likely use the same in this application. I have some Williams locos with bonded coal loads that could use some topping off as the original bonding resulted in some loss.

I have the impression, perhaps mistaken, that many RRs used run-of-mine coal with a wide range of sizes for locomotive firing. Anyone on this list have facts about that?

The coal after setting up is pretty durable and can be handled easily with out shedding coal (similar to ballasted track), where you might lose a piece here or there.  Mine will not peal off when dry.  
As far as putting in the box, I am not sure how much room there is for this above the normal pile.  One of the reasons I like the medium coal size over the bigger sizes is it seemed to fill in gaps and help cover the edges better where the cast pile doesn’t leave much room to with out being higher than the bunker. It also allows enough coverage while minimizing how much taller the pile grows beyond the original casting height.  The medium size looks similar in size to to the JLC Y6b and H7 coal piles.  Shipping was fortune with this company ( more than the coal).  It might be worth buying both medium and the next size up if you plan to blend.

What coal size is right I am not sure and would love to hear more about it from others with knowledge.  Some of the mth coal granules on their steam engines are bigger than their engineers head, 😂.  This seems out of place to me.   Curious what other have to say on this.

As far as the windex, I was just looking for something that would evaporate quickly, but still allowed the glue to be very fluid like when pouring on the pile allowing capillary action to help saturate and allow a lot of glue exposure on multiple sides of each granule.  I have used mat medium on a lot of my scenery, but it seems to leave a shiny look after drying.  The white glue dries flat and close to clear if it is thin.

I can post a picture of the coal bag size later this week.  The eBay sale nor the packaging indicate it.  Guessing around 8-10 oz.  The bag I bought had enough for probably a dozen engines.

Last edited by Hump Yard Mike

On the Central, smaller, egg sized coal was usually reserved for passenger trains, since it burned cleaner. The larger coal was used on freight. MTH used real coal. You can buy genuine anthracite from Brennan’s. He has real deal anthracite in a variety of sizes, from 1 to 5 with no.3 I find to be egg sized. Great work Mike, your improved coal bunkers look fantastic!….here’s an example of an improved coal load using Brennan’s genuine anthracite ….

Pat 19E6F3BB-33C0-4A68-A5F5-604A5097E20B

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@harmonyards posted:

Nothing at all, except it’s very fine, like sand,……might look ok in a hopper car, but I don’t know about a steam locomotive’s tender ……I’d have to see it ..

Pat

I searched through a bunch more posts and saw that someone recommended the medium blasting media instead of the fine.  That would have to be ordered from TSC.

50 lbs is a lot.  I wouldn't mind seeing it installed either Pat.

John

@CNJ Jim posted:

Great write-up, Mike. Thank you.

Approximately how far does one bag of 1133 medium coal get you? Is the bag very big? Pint size? Quart size? I'm going to place an order with them ... thinking of how many I should order.

Thanks
Jim

May want to hold off ordering, or find another source. After reading this when it was originally posted, I ordered a bag from Arizona Minerals. They had no problem taking my money, but shipping the coal was another issue. After 10 days, I sent them an email asking when it might ship. Got no response at all. After 2 weeks with it still listed as not having shipped, I got PayPal to refund my money.

If they have supply issues, or something else preventing them from shipping in a timely manner, no problem, as long as you notify your customer, especially when taking the money up front. Plenty of other people selling things who will...

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