Using American Models powered turnouts with a DCC layout

As I recall, AM uses the Atlas HO switch machines.  They will work on DC or AC, all you need is a momentary contact toggle, which I believe is included, to pulse the switch coils.  It shouldn't affect DCC operation.

Rusty

Thank you, Rusty.

I have two other related questions whose answers will help me select the brand of track I’ll use for my planned permanent DCC-operation layout. Note: I have a loop of Lionel American Flyer FastTrack for testing and evaluating the performance of my lone locomotive [an American Models K4 modified for DCC operation] and passenger car consist. [My subsequent plans are to acquire a serviceable Gilbert Flyer steam switcher and have it upgraded to DCC.]

[1] Based on your answer above, am I correct in assuming that Custom Trax’s manual turnouts could be upgraded to remote control operation without encountering a DCC compatibility issue by installing Tortoise or similar switch motors?

[2] Because Lionel American Flyer uses proprietary FlyerChief/LionChief/LionChief Plus/Legacy systems to power and control its locomotives, its command control turnouts would seemingly be incompatible with DCC. Would its manual turnouts, which feature “tethered remote control,” be compatible with DCC?

[1]  I don't see an issue with Tortoise as they are in wide use within the hobby.  I think even some folks use stationary decoders to operate them.

[2] I'm not familiar at all with Lionel's FasTrack command/remote turnouts.  However, the manual ones are just that: Manual.  They require the operator to physically throw the turnout, there's no control electronics in them at all.

Rusty

The bigger issue is Custom Trax S gauge turnouts use code 100 rail. Gilbert engines will not run on it unless all the flanged wheels are replaced.

The Lionel S gauge FasTrack remote turnouts will operate either with a wired controller or wirelessly with the Legacy system. I imagine a DCC decoder could be added but that is not part of the design.

@Rusty Traque posted:

[2] I'm not familiar at all with Lionel's FasTrack command/remote turnouts.  However, the manual ones are just that: Manual.  They require the operator to physically throw the turnout, there's no control electronics in them at all.

Rusty

If that is indeed the case, the “tethered remote control” referred to in the Lionel Flyer catalog is a [deliberate] misnomer; a non-electrical cable is either supplied with the turnout or must be provided by the user. Attention Forum S scale operators familiar with Lionel's manual turnouts: Please let me know exactly how they are actuated. 

@AmFlyer posted:

The bigger issue is Custom Trax S gauge turnouts use code 100 rail. Gilbert engines will not run on it unless all the flanged wheels are replaced.

The Lionel S gauge FasTrack remote turnouts will operate either with a wired controller or wirelessly with the Legacy system. I imagine a DCC decoder could be added but that is not part of the design.

Thanks for the info about Custom Trax rail height; it helps narrow down the number of track brands I have to consider.

Regarding FasTrack remote control turnouts, am I correct to conclude that right out of the box [i.e., without modifying them, such as incorporating a stationary decoder] they are incompatible with DCC?

@Bob G (WNY) posted:

If that is indeed the case, the “tethered remote control” referred to in the Lionel Flyer catalog is a [deliberate] misnomer; a non-electrical cable is either supplied with the turnout or must be provided by the user. Attention Forum S scale operators familiar with Lionel's manual turnouts: Please let me know exactly how they are actuated.

I'm getting out of my depth here, but to me it appears the command control turnouts have the option of using a hard-wired turnout controller (hence the tether) vs using the Legacy handheld to perform the same function.

It took some digging on the Lionel site.  From the remote control turnout owners manual:

This is what the owners manual says for throwing the manual turnouts:

Rusty

I use FasTrack command control turnouts on my layout and I run DCC. But I am not sure what you mean by incompatible. Are you talking about the ability to control the switch with DCC? If so, no you cannot actuate them with DCC. I actuate mine with my Legacy remote.

As for the manual version, you turn the switch stand by hand. Without major customization that would not be worthwhile, there is no way to operate these with Tortoise or other switch motors on the market.

@Chuck K posted:

I use FasTrack command control turnouts on my layout and I run DCC. But I am not sure what you mean by incompatible. Are you talking about the ability to control the switch with DCC? If so, no you cannot actuate them with DCC. I actuate mine with my Legacy remote.

As for the manual version, you turn the switch stand by hand. Without major customization that would not be worthwhile, there is no way to operate these with Tortoise or other switch motors on the market.

Thanks for settling my question about FasTrack manual switches, Chuck.

By incompatibility of DC-controlled turnouts on a DCC layout, I'm referring to the possibility that the decoder in my locomotive might not function properly or worse yet, be ruined, when I throw a single-pole switch to actuate the turnout.

My concern stems from an admonition that first appears under the heading “Don’t mix DC with DCC” on page 9 of the 2010 Kalmbach publication DCC Projects & Applications, Volume 2. The book states that “DCC can highlight turnout problems that aren’t apparent with DC”; a diagram showing how to rewire a DC-activated turnout for DCC operation” is even provided [see attached graphic]. It’s possible [more likely, probable] that I have misinterpreted the advice given in the book. As such, I've sought the opinions of Forum S scale hi-rail modelers to set me straight in this matter.

@Rusty Traque posted:

I'm getting out of my depth here, but to me it appears the command control turnouts have the option of using a hard-wired turnout controller (hence the tether) vs using the Legacy handheld to perform the same function.

It took some digging on the Lionel site.  From the remote control turnout owners manual:

Rusty

Thank you, Rusty, for taking the time to locate, scan, and post Lionel’s documentation about its FasTrack turnouts. One section confirmed Chuck K’s answer describing how the manual turnouts are actuated.

I’m certain that DCC per se is incompatible with Lionel AF’s proprietary FlyerChief, LionChief, LionChief Plus, and Legacy operating systems. And I now know that FasTrack automatic turnouts can be operated in conventional mode. One question, however, remains: Would doing so, which entails “mixing” DC [via Lionel’s presumably DC-powered turnout controller] with my track’s DCC cause problems? I posed this question to Chuck K in a recent post and await his and other's answer.

As I say I run DCC and use these turnouts. So they are compatible in the sense that they can function on a DCC layout. I control mine with my Legacy Cab 2 remote and run my locos with smart devices.

Out of the box, the actuation of L-AF FasTrack turnouts is powered by the AC flowing through the rails. 15-18 VAC is ideal. There are instructions and a jumper included in the box for changing the actuator to receive AC power separate from the rails.  That is what I did with mine. I have a separate AC transformer and bus to power the switches and layout lighting.

While I am typically operating with constant voltage track power for DCC or Legacy operations, this actuator power set up gives me the flexibility to toggle over to conventional track power running vintage stuff and still be able to  throw my turnouts when my track has low voltage.

Powering the actuation by DC is not an option, at least not without major customization and electronics skills.

@Chuck K posted:

As I say I run DCC and use these turnouts. So they are compatible in the sense that they can function on a DCC layout. I control mine with my Legacy Cab 2 remote and run my locos with smart devices.

Out of the box, the actuation of L-AF FasTrack turnouts is powered by the AC flowing through the rails. 15-18 VAC is ideal. There are instructions and a jumper included in the box for changing the actuator to receive AC power separate from the rails.  That is what I did with mine. I have a separate AC transformer and bus to power the switches and layout lighting.

While I am typically operating with constant voltage track power for DCC or Legacy operations, this actuator power set up gives me the flexibility to toggle over to conventional track power running vintage stuff and still be able to  throw my turnouts when my track has low voltage.

Powering the actuation by DC is not an option, at least not without major customization and electronics skills.

Thanks for the clarification on using these turnouts with DCC.

One more question. Did you have to modify the original wiring of your #6-49895 FasTrack uncoupling track sections in order to actuate them when operating your trains via DCC, or does the supplied on-off control switch alone suffice?

@Bob G (WNY) posted:

One more question. Did you have to modify the original wiring of your #6-49895 FasTrack uncoupling track sections in order to actuate them when operating your trains via DCC, or does the supplied on-off control switch alone suffice?

Those are designed for use with AF style claw couplers which I don't use, so I don't have any of those uncouplers.  I tried looking on Lionel support page for the product documents, but I couldn't find them.  Everything in the Lionel world is designed to work off of AC power, and I assume these just use the current flowing through the rail to power activation. Therefore, will likely work fine on a DCC layout. DCC modifies the AC sine wave delivered to the track, but I am guessing they would still work.

@Chuck K posted:

Those are designed for use with AF style claw couplers which I don't use, so I don't have any of those uncouplers.  I tried looking on Lionel support page for the product documents, but I couldn't find them.  Everything in the Lionel world is designed to work off of AC power, and I assume these just use the current flowing through the rail to power activation. Therefore, will likely work fine on a DCC layout. DCC modifies the AC sine wave delivered to the track, but I am guessing they would still work.

Are there any Forum members who use LionelFlyer's uncoupler with a DCC-type layout? If so,  please answer the question I posed earlier: 

Bob G (WNY)

While on the subject of remote controlled turnouts, I use S-Helper track and turnouts for my Small layout. Of course it is now impossible to find replacements and I now have several with non-working(burned out) solenoids!! Has anyone been able to make workable repairs, it possible to replace them with a comparable solenoid?! I can’t afford the price that Lionel is charging for their remote turnouts plus the modifications necessary to fit them into my layout! Any help/advice would be appreciated!!

Sincerely, Laurin

Now 80 and still young at heart when I smell the cedar scented Smoke and watch the AF Trains(new and Old)!!  👍👍😊🚂🚂  

Laurin, I have never had one of the SHS turnout actuators fail. When I use them, they are powered from the fixed 14VAC output on an MRC AH101 transformer.

Replacement American Models turnout actuators are available from AM for $13.95. It looks like the SHS turnout lantern could be removed and the spring actuator on the AM connected to the throwbar at that point. Never tried this and do not own any AM turnouts to verify the sizes. It would be an external mount.

Here are pictures of the underside of an SHS turnout showing the actuator mechanism.

Tom - Thank you for your response and advice. I was glad to read that you had not experienced any problems with the SHS turnouts. I think I have chased down the cause of the overheating of the solenoids, to a faulty controller(S). I was hoping someone had had experience in replacing repairing the turnout actuator(S) in the SHS models.. looking at the AM turnouts with the external actuator, it looks like that actuator could possibly replace the SHS solenoid. I did not see on their website that they were available for individual purchase. I may check online and see if Atlas has them available and experiment with the possibilities. I just hate that I ruined 3 SHS turnouts before tracking down the problem, so, was hoping for a chance to repair them!!  Thank you again for responding and posting pictures, Yes, that is the exact solenoid that was fried.......

Laurin

They are on the AM site for separate sale. Look under Track, then Turnouts. The LH Switch motor with spring is part #TML, the RH switch motor with spring is part #TMR. They are each $13.95. The AM site says they have 50 of each in stock, ready to ship.

I have never had one of the SHS switch controllers fail. The control boxes seem well built, I wonder what part failed.

The return spring(?) on the controller would sometimes stick for a bit leaving power directly to the solenoids on! Generally I caught it in time to replace it back to neutral! Never realizing it was causing the problem!!
  Again, I appreciate your responses and will check back at AM and hopefully find a fix…..

Laurin