Gentlemen, I am about to take the shell off the Big Boy to see if there is a CAP on the motor. I know there are 4 screws and where they are at (just forward of the cab and in deep inserts and 2 under the front driver). I have a foam cradle to work from. I am thinking that there must be a process to do this. Maybe turn the loco upside down in the cradle to remove the screws and then?????? How to get it out of the cradle to right side up???? Any pointers would help. I have seen many threads on how easy this is but no detail.
Turn it upside down and take out the screws. Then set it on the wheels again and lift the top shell carefully! There are some plugs to disconnect, do so by carefully working the plug out of the connector, do NOT pull on the wires!
Thanks GRJ! Anything special to do for the wires connected to the antenna handrail?? Is there enough slack to turn the shell upside down and lay it beside the bottom?
The hand rails and cab light plug into a board screwed to the top boiler shell. You'll need to disconnect the wires from that board to the boards on the main frame. There are also wires towards the front of the boiler for marker lights you'll need to be mindful of. Hence why you move the top slowly.
As for where the cap wires go, I'll have to look. And there are only two.
I typically disconnect all of them so I can work without screwing something up. You do need to proceed carefully with the connectors, too many people yank on the wires and pull them out of the pins, then you have a bigger issue. 
I have successfully separated the shell without breaking anything; once you find the right 4 screws it separates easily with no force (mistakenly took out the wrong screw under the cab). The toughest part was putting the loco back on its wheels and keeping the boiler in place; big danger to the front boiler number board lights and marker lights and wire hand rails due to my hand getting too close to them - luckily they suffered no damage. I have it lying beside the bottom with the wire connectors to the front of the boiler marker lights still connected but have that front close enough to the bottom so no stress on them. Lots of slack in the rear cab lights due to the wires sticky stanchion being unstuck. I am working on adjusting my camera to send a photo.
The top of the motor does not have the round (I thought it was rectangular) cap. Now, here is where maybe I can get some directions on how to install it once I get the cap. Finally figured out that cap really stands for capacitor - feel like Homer Simpson - DOH!
The "cap" or "capacitor" is soldered directly across the motor brush leads.
Take pictures before you disconnect wires!
OK, I got some pics of the work area to contend with and with the blow down tube disconnected; I have ordered the caps. I am thinking that the white plug at the front of the motor that goes into a board that has 4 soldered nubs on the forward side of the board is where I will have to solder the cap??
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Well, chalk up the next picture to Divine Providence. Upon inspecting the wiring going from the rear of the motor forward, I found a number of wires that had their insulation fried by heat and then fused to one another. The top red wire was fused to the black wire just below it and then that to the blue wire below the black wire. When I separated them, the top red wire lost its insulation for an inch. I also discovered a red and black wire attached to the 4 wire white plug at the top of the motor looking stressed by heat. I am thinking that at one time those wires were located too close to the smoke unit. Any suggestions for repairing the exposed spot on the red wire?
I also am open to any advice on attaching the cap when it arrives.
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Obviously, the simple method of fixing a wire is just splicing in a fresh piece of wire. Using heatshrink of the correct size, you can make it pretty slim and it shouldn't be an issue.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Obviously, the simple method of fixing a wire is just splicing in a fresh piece of wire. Using heatshrink of the correct size, you can make it pretty slim and it shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks GRJ, I am gearing up for the cap as well. I have a Hakko FX888D-23BY on its way with heat sinks and multiple tips. I also have electrical 60/40 rosin core solder, heat shrink tubing of many sizes, lots of 18 Gauge red and black wire.
18ga is probably overkill, most of that wire is #22 or smaller.
RickM46 posted:Well, chalk up the next picture to Divine Providence. Upon inspecting the wiring going from the rear of the motor forward, I found a number of wires that had their insulation fried by heat and then fused to one another. The top red wire was fused to the black wire just below it and then that to the blue wire below the black wire. When I separated them, the top red wire lost its insulation for an inch. I also discovered a red and black wire attached to the 4 wire white plug at the top of the motor looking stressed by heat. I am thinking that at one time those wires were located too close to the smoke unit. Any suggestions for repairing the exposed spot on the red wire?
I also am open to any advice on attaching the cap when it arrives.
That usually is caused by having one roller power pickup like in the front on one voltage or ground and the other pickup in the rear on a different voltage. Then a huge current flows between the rollers which are connected together by a red wire which melts it’s self and anything it touches.
Chuck, thanks for the input! Maybe my track voltages aren't what they should be; makes me want to test each segment with a meter. I have a ZWL where I set the voltage lever to 17 volts. Lost the picture - re-inserted it again.
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gunrunnerjohn posted:18ga is probably overkill, most of that wire is #22 or smaller.
GRJ, thanks for the advice, have ordered appropriate size.
RickM46 posted:Chuck, thanks for the input! Maybe my track voltages aren't what they should be; makes me want to test each segment with a meter. I have a ZWL where I set the voltage lever to 17 volts. Lost the picture - re-inserted it again.
Sometimes it's a derailment, sometimes between a non powered block with a potential load parked on it and across to a powered block.
I did have a wire meltdown in a Genset due to one side (the powered side) of the smoke resistor shorted to ground. I had to replace the wires on three smoke units and another harness. All melted together. I did find out that Lionel parts search for "harness" and similar terms allowed me to construct what I needed by buying appropriate parts. There were and are few harnesses listed with engines. I was avoiding crimping up my own harness, but as GRJ points out, it's a lot cheaper to crimp.
Chuck, thanks for the info! I am awaiting some new soldering gear, wire strippers, wire, and finally the capacitor. I have to admit, after looking at the interior, Lionel engineers did a great job of routing and placement of the bunches of components. I am leaving the electrical plugs untouched - tried to unplug a few with my finger tips but they wouldn't budge; still plenty of room to work with the boiler off to the side.
Actually, the boiler is still off of my BB as I was planning to work on the smoke units, but life got in the way. I can take detailed photos of where the cap goes, but not until late Saturday or Sunday, if you can wait. I just soldered the cap in place without removing anything from the chassis.
sinclair posted:Actually, the boiler is still off of my BB as I was planning to work on the smoke units, but life got in the way. I can take detailed photos of where the cap goes, but not until late Saturday or Sunday, if you can wait. I just soldered the cap in place without removing anything from the chassis.
Sinclair, thanks a bunch!! I am awaiting the cap and other soldering gear so take your time. Pictures would be great.
One other thing, my apologies to Zachariah for hijacking your thread; on the other hand, if you hadn't started this trip, I would have never discovered the fried wires - thanks a million.
RickM46 posted:One other thing, my apologies to Zachariah for hijacking your thread; on the other hand, if you hadn't started this trip, I would have never discovered the fried wires - thanks a million.
No problem always great when we can get some information and be able to fix these engines ourselves. Saves a lot of time and money
Have not installed the capacitor yet, but fixed the fried wiring and re-assembled the boiler to the chassis. Did a test run and all is OK except for the original sound and motion issue. Am awaiting delivery of the capacitors (I ordered a few) and to hear from Sinclair.
Good thread. Nice contribution from everyone.
MartyE, this forum sure made my repair easier and I was greatly helped by the pictures on this thread https://ogrforum.com/...boy-tons-of-pictures from Alex M.
I am no master of soldering but have been practicing with the Hakko 888D; I found that using it and a chisel tip and 750F and heat sinks that tinning a 18G wire goes quite easy; also studied many YouTube videos on soldering. In addition, I have practiced with my Weller WLC100 at knob position 4. However, when the caps arrive, I will definitely need some advice with soldering that.
I recommend you drop the temperature to 650F on your soldering iron, and if you do any PCB soldering, I'd be at 550-600 maximum. I also use the needle-point tip for most of my work, especially PCB work. Truthfully, I haven't gotten out the extra handle with the chisel tip in months, never needed it. The beauty of a temperature controlled soldering iron is it maintains the temperature no matter what the load until you exceed the heat that the 70W element can deliver. Soldering #18 wire with mine at 650F with the needle point tip is no problem at all. For really heavy wire, I get out the Weller soldering gun.
That's interesting the extra capacitor on the big boy motor solves the speed lurch issue. I had the same problem on a few of my SD40's and swapped the front motors with ones with a capacitor on the board and all is good now.
GRJ, thanks, that info is what I exactly needed for the job on the Big Boy. I am making notes. When I solder the capacitor, what temp range do you recommend? I have the Hakko 888D and have electrical 60/40 .062" rosin core solder. Should I tin the ends of the capacitor before soldering?
Sorry, I got busy trying to finish a DCC install. But I did take a photo.
It goes on the back side of the PCBA at the connector location, the leads go on the red and black wires.
I did tin the leads first. Yes a small tip on your iron. Lower temp. having a helping hand helped a lot so the cap didn't move on me as I was soldering.
As for the cap, from what Lionel told me it acts like a filter and smooths out whatever needs smoothing so that the speed is nice and steady.
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RickM46 posted:GRJ, thanks, that info is what I exactly needed for the job on the Big Boy. I am making notes. When I solder the capacitor, what temp range do you recommend? I have the Hakko 888D and have electrical 60/40 .062" rosin core solder. Should I tin the ends of the capacitor before soldering?
.062" solder? 
First thing I'd recommend is getting a finer gauge of solder! 
I use .031" for general use, and .020" for PCB work. I don't even have anything the size of .062", that has to look like a train tunnel. Yes, you should always tin any bare lead, makes the job go smoother.
Here's your solder... 
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Just curious, why not cut the leads shorter, or at least slip some insulation on them. I'd be somewhat concerned about it shorting to the flywheel.
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Thanks Sinclair!! Just some questions per the pictures below, will appreciate your patience:
1. The capacitor's 2 leads have one that is shorter than the other; does it matter which goes to the red and black?
2. When you mention the backside of the PCBA board, are you referring to the solder nubs forward of the white plug that attaches to a board (see the first picture below, where from the right side of the white plug, there are wires red, white, black, blue and corresponding solder nubs on the forward side of the board)?
3. I take it you soldered the cap leads to the red and black solder nubs on the forward side of the board?
4. At what temp was your iron set to do the soldering?
5. What size solder did you use?
6. On the second picture below, it looks like the cap is sitting on the motor and rearward of the PCBA board. Is that where you finally located the cap?
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GRJ, here are pictures of the solder and smallest tip I have, too big??
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I use a finer tip, and much smaller solder, but that tip is fine for more work I imagine. The solder is pretty large for fine work. My iron probably has a few more miles on it than yours as well, this is not it's first tip!
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gunrunnerjohn posted:Just curious, why not cut the leads shorter, or at least slip some insulation on them. I'd be somewhat concerned about it shorting to the flywheel.
Because the Lionel photo of the motor didn't show any tubing or shorter leads, so it didn't even occur to me (I'm new at this compared to you after all, still learning.).
RickM46 posted:Thanks Sinclair!! Just some questions per the pictures below, will appreciate your patience:
1. The capacitor's 2 leads have one that is shorter than the other; does it matter which goes to the red and black?
No, if you got the cap from Lionel it doesn't matter which lead goes where.
2. When you mention the backside of the PCBA board, are you referring to the solder nubs forward of the white plug that attaches to a board (see the first picture below, where from the right side of the white plug, there are wires red, white, black, blue and corresponding solder nubs on the forward side of the board)?
Yes.
3. I take it you soldered the cap leads to the red and black solder nubs on the forward side of the board?
Yes.
4. At what temp was your iron set to do the soldering?
Will have to look when I get home.
5. What size solder did you use?
Will have to look when I get home.
6. On the second picture below, it looks like the cap is sitting on the motor and rearward of the PCBA board. Is that where you finally located the cap?
I took the photo Saturday night, and it hasn't moved. I'm sure when I go to put the shell back on I'll probably bend it out of the way and use insulation of some kind. Like John pointed out, I failed to put heat shrink on it, so I'll probably apply some Kapton tape.
Sinclair and GunRunnerJohn and CJack - thanks a million for all your help. Now I am waiting for the caps, finer soldering tips, and finer solder.
Will keep an eye out for Sinclair's last info.
The Lionel caps showed up today and their leads are only 3/8 inch long - not too long for the spot where they have to be soldered to the PCBA nubs; definitely will take 3 hands. I see why Sinclair located the cap where he did; it is elevated enough to easily miss the flywheel. Here they are:
Gunrunnerjohn, you mentioned these alternative caps below; would you happen to have any and the lengths of their leads?
It's a 4.7uf 50V bi-polar capacitor, a cheap place to get it is Digikey as Lionel will have expensive shipping. Nichicon CAP ALUM 4.7UF 20% 50V RADIAL, 28 cents each. Shipping for small orders from Digikey is only around $3, and the ship very fast, usually in a couple of days you'll have your parts. You can have a few for around $5 total.
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RickM46 posted:Gunrunnerjohn, you mentioned these alternative caps below; would you happen to have any and the lengths of their leads?
It's a 4.7uf 50V bi-polar capacitor, a cheap place to get it is Digikey as Lionel will have expensive shipping. Nichicon CAP ALUM 4.7UF 20% 50V RADIAL, 28 cents each. Shipping for small orders from Digikey is only around $3, and the ship very fast, usually in a couple of days you'll have your parts. You can have a few for around $5 total.
The beauty of Digikey is they have real parts with real specifications. For the cap above, for instance, they specify the lead lengths.
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Thanks GRJ!!
