I love mine, it looks ans sounds awesome!!! Worth 2g's, naw, but everyt ime I run it I am happy I bought it. The sound is really what makes it but I do love all the doodads. They're fun to play with and definitely make it easier to pretend you're in the cab
that's not the way you stay in business, you are missing the lower income range, I did not renew TCA cause they raised membership, reading about York its headed the same way, cost is too much,
I bought 2 aristo craft G ga 2-8888-8888-2 years ago with plans to convert one to STD ga, adding the 4 wheel trucks, cause if one ever came out it would be toooooooo costly,
Worth every penny. When I run it, when others see it, it brings great joy. Anything that can do that is worth what I paid.
Yes
Sure love mine. A big hit with me, and any guest that shows up. My mother-in-law saw the real ones as a young-un, absolutely croons when that whistle goes. Got the black and grey water tenders for this one and my greyhound VL Challenger, and run them simultaneously on different tracks. Glorious.
Is it worth $2k? Dunno. Same price as race tires on my Porsche. Same as a half decent piece of furniture. I lost more on my 401k in January alone than this cost. All a matter of perspective I suppose. I'm glad I got it. I didn't pre-order the Allegheny, but I'll likely get one, looks great and should run well.
.
I am glad to see Lionel and others push the boundaries with technology and detail. There will always be a place for high end premium priced models in our hobby. Not that they will find their way to my home - but the features and lessons learned eventually trickle down to other price points in motive power.
Paul
One of the finest O Gauge locomotives ever built. Couldn't be any happier with my 4014. In fact, I'm looking to add to my fleet!
Best,
Michael
I am answering for two of my friends that do not participate on this forum. I do not have this engine.
In terms of “worth it” only the buyer can answer that, but the other part of the question: Performance, reliability, etc. Have been flawless. One has only run on the club layout as he does not have the space at home. I’m guessing about 12-15 hours since he received his. We have all major makers represented: Lionel, MTH, Atlas, Sunset 3rd Rail, K-line etc. This engine is THE hit when all the features are used with the exception of the coal load, too slow for most people to see the change, but the sound, smoke and shear massiveness are second to none.
My other friend has also expressed no problems with his, but I don’t think he has as many hours on his unit.
Hope that help Paul.
Charlie
It was worth it to me.....and I don't own one!!!!
But I think the VL Big Boy put a number of older BB locos on the market.......and I picked up a first gen Lionel BB for $500 delivered. So in a strange way I love the VL Big Boy!!
I do not regret buying one, because I knew I'd regret not buying it as the BB is my favorite locomotive of all time. My wife on the other hand probably regrets letting me buy it as it turned out to be a gateway drug as it were. I now have 3 other Legacy steamers, with 3 more on order. The sights, the sounds, and the controls are all so fantastic. If my grandfather was still alive, I know he'd be blown away by how far it has come from the tin and plastic he had as a kid. Not having a layout when I bought the BB, my layout design revolved around it to make sure I could run it with a long line of cars behind it (Well, about 30 cars long, then the caboose will be coupled to the front of the locomotive.). The only issue I've had was the coal load stopped working. A trip back to Lionel fixed that and all is good now.
Paul
P-U Junk
The BB is worth the money. I have been inside it and it is very well built. Price is high but worth every penny.
Rocky Mountaineer posted:john dellagrotte posted:... I may buy one eventually but I will be paying much less than the BTO buyers. Just have to wait it out a little. JohnSorry, John. But I won't be able to help you in that department this time, since I didn't buy a VisionLine Big Boy.
David
Dave, I am very happy with the 3 engines you sold me. John
Absolutely! Running it with the auxiliary tank and a string of PFEs is a sight to behold!
Better yet is running four of them!
Chris Lord posted:Absolutely! Running it with the auxiliary tank and a string of PFEs is a sight to behold!
Better yet is running four of them!
"BIG BOY" madness! Running as intended at NJ Hirailers........
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Boomer posted:It would be interesting to me to as what the actual production numbers are. My guess is 300-400 tops. ...
If you're referring to the minimum needed to fill out a Lionel production run, I think we've figured out through the back door that the number is 300. Don't know if that's accurate or not, but think back to the order snafu with Charlie Ro's Polar Express scale Berks a couple of years ago.
Wasn't the "connected" guess either 2,000 or 2,500 units? I seem to remember posting, after a respected member threw out the number, either 2,000 Big Boys @ $2,500 each = $5,000,000 worth of Big Boys. But I might have used $2,000 x 2500 units = $5,000,000. I think it was the latter.
Based on what I see on this Forum, the videos posted on YouTube, Items on eBay, and Big Boys still for sale with dealers, I think the production numbers are WAY higher than 300 units.
Several years ago, I bought a limited edition NKP Hudson from Weaver...who actually tells you how many units were made and what your item's sequential number is...and that small run was 600 units. I would wager there's a much larger demand for UP Big Boys than NKP Hudsons...even at that price point.
side note: I would have skipped the depleting coal feature and lowered the price. I still like the Vision Line Challengers a bit more.
. Ask me about the Legacy Great Northern Mikado or the Legacy Lionmaster Challenger, though, for example. Yes, they were worth it.
Picked up a Legacy Great Northern Heavy Mikado from a Forum member about a month ago. It's absolutely fantastic, IMHO. The Glacier paint scheme is just stunning....and it nicely compliments my other predominantly black steam engines. (I'm just crossing my fingers on the smoke unit.)
I'll try to post some video after Tax Season.
How many fellas do you suppose will actually post, "Geez- maybe I shouldn't have spent $2k on a toy train"? 
Good point. Like the people who drive expensive cars with bad reliability records..
Berkshire President posted:Rocky Mountaineer posted:Boomer posted:It would be interesting to me to as what the actual production numbers are. My guess is 300-400 tops. ...
If you're referring to the minimum needed to fill out a Lionel production run, I think we've figured out through the back door that the number is 300. Don't know if that's accurate or not, but think back to the order snafu with Charlie Ro's Polar Express scale Berks a couple of years ago.
... Based on what I see on this Forum, the videos posted on YouTube, Items on eBay, and Big Boys still for sale with dealers, I think the production numbers are WAY higher than 300 units.
...
Agreed. The 300 number represented a likely MINIMUM number of pre-orders to commit a catalog'd item for a production run. It was in reference to a question posed about how many pre-orders are needed before Lionel would cancel production of a BTO item.
David
Berkshire President posted:. Ask me about the Legacy Great Northern Mikado or the Legacy Lionmaster Challenger, though, for example. Yes, they were worth it.Picked up a Legacy Great Northern Heavy Mikado from a Forum member about a month ago. It's absolutely fantastic, IMHO. The Glacier paint scheme is just stunning. ...
I purchased the GN model at a good price from Nicholas Smith Trains, and I grabbed a NYC model at a dynamite price that was one of Henning's Trains "daily deals". Both are fabulous locomotives, and I think these Heavy Mikado's are gonna be real sleepers until folks "discover" how great they are. Not to mention they won't be shelf queens like many Big Boys, 'cause they fit well on any size O-Gauge layout.
Now these Heavy Mikados are certainly not worth $1300 MSRP. Not sure what Lionel's pricing gurus were smoking when they arrived at that number. 
But at $850-$925, folks might at least consider buying one (or two). 
David
I would buy it if I didn't already own one but I refuse to fall into the disposable electronics mentality. I have a perfectly good one already and I'm not about to spend that much because of a few extra features. People that visit are impressed for about ten minutes then usually say you spend that much for something that goes in a circle.
Bob
David: You're spot on. That 850-925 is the sweet spot...and has been for a while. For me, at least. (Funny how MTH can stay in that zip code but Big Orange is 50% or more higher.)
Sadly, so many people never got to see the Great Northern Mikado b/c it was BTO. I firmly believe Lionel would have sold a LOT of them had they been made available.
Ragging on BTO some more, the actual model looks WAY better than the catalog picture.
david1 posted:brwebster posted:Hudson J1e posted:breezinup posted:Bingo!
Not only was I getting priced out of the market but having to move to a smaller space with no room for a layout it was decided to get out of O gauge. Why have thousands of dollars just sitting in their boxes.
Im still playing with trains but as I have said before, on a smaller scale.
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation. Good luck in your new scale.
I have watched the videos of the BBs etc but the electronic sounds are a real turn off. I must say, in all honesty, I didn't see anything that would make me want a 2 grand engine. Best show for me is a high stepping Berkshire on the high line at speed.
LOL, it always interesting to read theads like these as there typically are two camps of responses, from those who actually bought the model and those that did not. Buyers, usually spend time deciding upfront if the model looks like a wothwhile purchase while Non-buyers have decided upfront that the model does not meet their needs or the cost is too high. And as it should be, those who actually put their money down are usually happy with the purchase. 
For the life of me, I don't understand the angst over BTO. The purpose of BTO to help the manufacture (or importer if you prefer that term), recoup their monies on manufactuing and importing a specific model.
- As an example, if 3rd Rail has a BTO minimum of 50 units, and Scott has pre-orders for 50 units (or possibly a few less that he can sell on his website) the project goes forward.
- For another example, if Lionel has BTO of 300 units and gets pre-orders for 2000 units the project goes forward. With the BTO model, if dealers have BTO preorders from customers for 1200 units and puts in orders for 800 more to sell in their stores, the project goes forward with 2000 units. The takeaway here is that Lionel has presold the 2000 units they had manufactured AND they do not have warehouse inventory sitting around. The dealers on the otherhand, are taking a risk that they can sell (at a profit) the units they preordered for their store not earmarked for customers. If there is demand for 2300 units they all win. If there is demand for 1800 units, some of them are going to be sold at a loss.
Jim
PAUL ROMANO posted:Chris Lord posted:Absolutely! Running it with the auxiliary tank and a string of PFEs is a sight to behold!
Better yet is running four of them!
"BIG BOY" madness! Running as intended at NJ Hirailers........
unbelievable!
Peter
I have one. It was in the NJHirailers video. I've run it at our shows for 6 hours at a time pulling 35 cars up and down the mountains and it doesn't break a sweat. GREAT ENGINE. I ordered the Allegheny. I hope it is as good as the Big Boy.
Jim D.
I've wanted a Big Boy ever since seeing the 4012 in Scranton back in 2003. Was unable to afford the first Legacy offering, so I jumped on this chance. To me, it was worth every penny and then some. I love the sound, the smoke (and boy can it smoke!), and all the gadgets. This engine is a winner in every category in my book. I have more fun with this engine than any other I own.
In addition, it is a big hit at every show I take it to, both with adults and kids, and when I hand the remote off to kids (the ones that are old enough anyway) that come to see us, the look on their faces makes it even more priceless.
Andy
I had (have) an MTH Big Boy that I considered great. Then I bought the VL Big Boy, and I haven't bothered to run my MTH version since then. The Lionel VL Big Boy is in a class by itself.
Interestingly, even people who know very little about model trains (or real ones, for that matter) never fail to be impressed when I run the VL Big Boy and demonstrate it features, including the coal depletion and refilling.
Was it worth its price? Yes! But this depends strictly on the person. For example, even though I have absolutely nothing against fishing, a sport enjoyed by most of my friends and millions of people, I would never pay $2K for a fishing reel, but many of my friends would.
Worth the price (of anything)? The answer is simple: to each his own, and there is no right or wrong.
Alex
Marty Fitzhenry posted:The BB is worth the money. I have been inside it and it is very well built. Price is high but worth every penny.
How the heck did you fit in that engine???
bluelinec4 posted:Marty Fitzhenry posted:The BB is worth the money. I have been inside it and it is very well built. Price is high but worth every penny.
How the heck did you fit in that engine???
I was wondering that too!
For the life of me, I don't understand the angst over BTO.
Seriously? BTO passes ALL the risk of the purchase on to the Consumer who is being asked to commit a relatively large amount of money on a product.....sight unseen with little to no recourse if the product does not arrive as desired.
3rd Rail can do this b/c of their tremendous reputation for accuracy and quality. (BTW: 3rd Rail and Weaver actually release/released production numbers....unlike Big Orange....so relative rarity is known.)
Lionel does not have that luxury, IMHO. FWIW, the second Legacy NKP Berk #765 did not look like what was pictured in the catalog. My GN Heavy Mikado is much better looking than what was pictured in the catalog/online....but it still looked materially different than what was "advertised".
Berkshire President posted:David: You're spot on. That 850-925 is the sweet spot...and has been for a while. For me, at least. (Funny how MTH can stay in that zip code but Big Orange is 50% or more higher.)
Sadly, so many people never got to see the Great Northern Mikado b/c it was BTO. I firmly believe Lionel would have sold a LOT of them had they been made available.
Ragging on BTO some more, the actual model looks WAY better than the catalog picture.
Which is why I snapped up a Heavy Mike at $750 when I found one. Wasn't the GN one (I actually don't like the coloring myself.), but it was from the 1st issue so it had been on the shelf for a while. It's almost run as much as my BB at this point. I double head them a lot actually...
Part of why I like the Heavy Mikes is that they are a nice change of pace from the NKP Berks and various, large 4-8-4s that I run. Running medium sized steamers helps you appreciate how truly large "large" steam was.
And, the Mikes look really good on 0-72 and even 0-63 to some degree. The bigger engines scream for 0-84 and 0-96.....which they'll get.....one day.
"3rd Rail can do this b/c of their tremendous reputation for accuracy and quality. (BTW: 3rd Rail and Weaver actually release/released production numbers....unlike Big Orange....so relative rarity is known.)"
3rd Rail is superb, but not perfect. They are essentially a boutique vendor. They probably sell about 1/10th or less the number of high end locos that Lionel does. They don't have the expense of a media presence, a dealer network, a full line of products, or meeting the needs of literally hundreds of thousands of consumers over a period of years.
They also do not have a budget for technical innovation since they rely on Lionel and others for that. No investment in electronics, sounds, etc. It's really apples and oranges in most ways. Their expensive locos are brass, not expensive up front costs of diecasting like Lionel steamers to add one more variable.
If Lionel did not exist, I'm suggesting 3rd Rail would never have gotten into the three rail marketplace as they have. For many years they were a two rail operation I believe. Weaver is out of business and never amounted to much in terms of the market share.
In three rail, they both owed their existence to the larger market created by Lionel. Neither marketed track, accessories, or much in the way of rolling stock compared with Lionel and, later, MTH. They had different equations for their profitability and market presence, so comparisons are largely impossible to make, IMO. If you are happy with 3rd Rail, that's great, but it's not a reasonable comparison with Lionel's business model in any shape or form, in my view.
Doug N posted:bluelinec4 posted:Marty Fitzhenry posted:The BB is worth the money. I have been inside it and it is very well built. Price is high but worth every penny.
How the heck did you fit in that engine???
I was wondering that too!
Got Small with Steve Martin?
Berkshire President posted:...Lionel does not have that luxury, IMHO. FWIW, the second Legacy NKP Berk #765 did not look like what was pictured in the catalog. My GN Heavy Mikado is much better looking than what was pictured in the catalog/online....but it still looked materially different than what was "advertised".
Yes, if Lionel continues to move more of their high-end product to BTO, then their catalog illustrations need to be spot-on with the product delivered. That was not the case with the recent NYC ESE separate-sale locomotives. Although it wasn't a show-stopper for me, I know several folks were disappointed with the driver arrangement "as delivered" vs. what was illustrated in the catalog.
The whole disclaimer of "actual production models are subject change, blah blah blah" is a bit antiquated considering consumers and dealers are asked to pre-order based on what they see in a catalog. If the actual production model differs from the catalog illustration, then we get into a whole other discussion as to the "degree of difference threshold" before it's ethical/proper to cancel a pre-order.
David
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Berkshire President posted:...Lionel does not have that luxury, IMHO. FWIW, the second Legacy NKP Berk #765 did not look like what was pictured in the catalog. My GN Heavy Mikado is much better looking than what was pictured in the catalog/online....but it still looked materially different than what was "advertised".
The whole disclaimer of "actual production models are subject change, blah blah blah" is a bit antiquated considering consumers and dealers are asked to pre-order based on what they see in a catalog.
Not at these price points, Big Orange. An ultra premium price demands an ultra premium product....as pictured, IMHO.
If you want my hard-earned money, you (in turn) have to earn it as well.
Berkshire President posted:For the life of me, I don't understand the angst over BTO.Seriously? BTO passes ALL the risk of the purchase on to the Consumer who is being asked to commit a relatively large amount of money on a product.....sight unseen with little to no recourse if the product does not arrive as desired.
Yes, seriously. BTO is just another term for pre-orders. Like it or not, this (preorders) is the new normal for Lionel for high priced ticket items, as they apparently have decided that they aren't going to sit on millions of dollars worth of inventory and hope it sells. Same holds true for many of the LHS's, as given the relatively small margins many of them won't have a lot of money invested in $1,000, $1,500, or $2,000 engines.
Quite honestly, the whining about Lionel and BTO has gotten old. That is why I don't even look at the BTO threads any more. LIONEL HAS DECIDED that BTO is their mode of operation. If you don't want to pre-order from Lionel, thats fine (I would be hesitant myself on some items), but Lionel has gone down this route. You are always free to start your own importing company and fill up the warehouse with inventory and then try and sell it. If you decide to make some Reading steam engines I would even be interested is seeing what you have!
Jim
