Well we now know who still owns the Hudson tooling.

@Hudson5432 posted:

NYC per Dwg V-70156 described this as "Casing, Auxiliary Exhaust, Pipe Fittings, Locomotives". Prominent on Super Hudsons prior to the replacement of Elesco heaters with Worthington, it was also found on J-1E's with Coffin FWH and on B&A J-2B and J-2C. It was not circular. There were two designs and each was ovoid in shape. On some engines, it was a booster exhaust, on others it was a Coffin FWH vent.

Re B&A green engines, I had MTH contact Bob Buck, a NYCSHS member and supporter, who remembered B&A Hudsons in two shades of green, and who had the final vote; he selected one color for the engine and a darker muted green for the tenders, from his memory. The questions re B&A greens were referred to me, and I confirmed that nothing existed in current NYCSHS drawing files re the B&A colors.

I personally believe a B&A A-1 Berk in green is somewhere between wishful thinking and a myth, but that is just my opinion. Knowing how conservative B&A was, I can't imagine that the RR would paint a freight engine in anything other than black. There is nothing in old issues of Railway Mechanical Engineer that would confirm a green Berkshire (or green Hudsons, for that matter), and RME usually identified engines with special paint. However, I do have b&w pictures of B&A Hudsons where the color of the boiler is obviously a different shade/hue/color than the color of the running gear.

THE NYC was also very conservative. Our former Prez Charles Smith recalls that one painter was docked for painting a running board edge in white, for  "wasting company resources". There were renegades though. I have color images of a number of NYC engines with white striping on running boards after NYC shop overhauls.

Not sure I wholeheartedly agree with your last part, ….if you’re referring to closer to the end of steam, when the Central proper was not a financially healthy entity, then yes, I’d agree,….but before the war, during the war, and straight after the war, these guys were pretty proud of their machines.,….I clung to my grandfather nearly every day of the week, listening to his stories, and keeping tabs on what he said,…..grandad worked in the electric car shops, as a mechanic, but he was also qualified steam, and master pipe fitter, …..he said they kept those machines clean as a whistle when they’d come off the road, …..number 1 reason he always told me, ….it’s a **** of a lot easier to fix something clean than something nasty,….during the war, they ( NYC ) saw fit to have the man deferred, and for OT, he worked on steam in the roundhouse at Harmon,….you can clearly see in pictures the decline of the road as machines fell into disrepair and esthetics took a back seat to no more money to keep them nice,…..conservative yes, but I’d think more after they started taking the hits in the wallet…..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

5342 is a J1e, coffin type feedwater heater, represented by the small stack, in front of the main stack, ….12 wheel tender. So although somewhat toy-like, the prewar Lionel OO gauge 5342 is actually very close to accurate. 5342 never received a PT tender, at least by all the records I have both in research books, and via the NYCHS’s records….so the latest release of 5342 by MTH is not correct, as advertised,……for those looking for accuracy….

Pat

So the shorter tenders of the postwar Hudson's were close to being right? That is interesting. Why would they give 5342 a PT Tender if it never had one? I thought MTH did their research pretty well on what they made?

Earlier in the thread several folks were speculating about Lionel's use of the K-Line Hudson for the Vision Line model. My recollection was that Lionel used the 1990 Hudson with features added. Pete (Norton) and I had a conversation online at the time that the K-Line model was slightly more detailed than the Lionel VL. Pete showed me that the steam cylinders on the K-Line had much more rivet detail whereas the ones on the Lionel were relatively bare on the sides. Here is a pic I took today of my K-Line showing this. I don't have the Lionel model for comparison however.

@c.sam posted:

Earlier in the thread several folks were speculating about Lionel's use of the K-Line Hudson for the Vision Line model. My recollection was that Lionel used the 1990 Hudson with features added.

It's " speculated " that  part of the K Line hudson was used.

Specifically the drivers, chassis, and possibly the cab are K Line.

The rest of the boiler/shell, steam chests and tender from the 1990 700e.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

So the shorter tenders of the postwar Hudson's were close to being right? That is interesting. Why would they give 5342 a PT Tender if it never had one? I thought MTH did their research pretty well on what they made?

Dave, …don’t confuse the prewar OO and the prewar 700E with the postwar postwar offerings,…..during the postwar period, the Hudson was paired with the 2426 “semi scale tender” then the last run with a 736W tender,…….the prewar offerings both in O and OO were pretty close to scale ….

Pat

@c.sam posted:

Earlier in the thread several folks were speculating about Lionel's use of the K-Line Hudson for the Vision Line model. My recollection was that Lionel used the 1990 Hudson with features added. Pete (Norton) and I had a conversation online at the time that the K-Line model was slightly more detailed than the Lionel VL. Pete showed me that the steam cylinders on the K-Line had much more rivet detail whereas the ones on the Lionel were relatively bare on the sides. Here is a pic I took today of my K-Line showing this. I don't have the Lionel model for comparison however.

Sam, here’s my observations beings I have all 3 in front of me…

the boiler shell: definitely the 1990 700E casting, ( although modified for a new chassis)  A new back head was designed as a separate piece to install in the older 1990 700E casting. The original Kline does not have a separate back head, but instead is cast as part of the whole boiler.

the chassis: this is definitely a modified Kline Hudson chassis. Modifications to the gear box were made to put a larger rear facing motor, as opposed to Kline’s cost cutting measure utilizing the small Mubachi 385. When you have both bare naked chassis sitting in front of you, the similarities are just to great to ignore. The drivers of the VL Hudson, and the Kline Hudson are 100% identical, threaded holes are the same as each other’s. The rods interchange between the Kline & the VL. They will not interchange with the 700E chassis.

So it’s an eclectic mix of old & new. I think when they decided to do a “new” 700E they did stay somewhat true to the roots of Lionel’s history, and utilizing some elements of the 700E that THEY made, as opposed to just simply modding the Kline all the way, ….which they could have done easily, and still had a winner, as the Kline scale Hudson, is arguably the high water mark of die cast Hudsons. Hope that makes some sense,…when you have all the players sitting in front of you, it’s an eye opening experience,….😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Dave, …don’t confuse the prewar OO and the prewar 700E with the postwar postwar offerings,…..during the postwar period, the Hudson was paired with the 2426 “semi scale tender” then the last run with a 736W tender,…….the prewar offerings both in O and OO were pretty close to scale ….

Pat

I was asking if the semi scale tenders from the postwar were a closer match to the actual tenders for the engine in question. I know that sometimes they have been ultra short, or way off all together.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I was asking if the semi scale tenders from the postwar were a closer match to the actual tenders for the engine in question. I know that sometimes they have been ultra short, or way off all together.

The cast 2426 tender is of the same shape as used by the Central, but shrunk down for O GAUGE, ….so it looks the part, but it’s dimensionally a country mile off,……as I see it, this is why those Hudsons with the shorter 2426 type tender are referred to as “ semi scale” ….ie; 773, 783, 784, & 785, ….maybe others later on,…it wasn’t till the 1990 re-release of the 700E that we see the full scale 700T ( the tender ) return to active service,…

Pat

The USA Trains 1:29 scale Hudson #5344 is very highly detailed and hopefully true to the prototype. Anyone have any experience with this one?   Mine just sits on my mantle...

These steam chests are very close to the K-Line model pictured in my earlier post

This will give you an idea of the size of this handsome rascal!

@harmonyards posted:

The cast 2426 tender is of the same shape as used by the Central, but shrunk down for O GAUGE, ….so it looks the part, but it’s dimensionally a country mile off,……as I see it, this is why those Hudsons with the shorter 2426 type tender are referred to as “ semi scale” ….ie; 773, 783, 784, & 785, ….maybe others later on,…it wasn’t till the 1990 re-release of the 700E that we see the full scale 700T ( the tender ) return to active service,…

Pat

Oh yeah, the 700E from 1990. My local train store has/had one on display for sale. I actually thought at first it was a custom build because I hadn't seen on in person before. It definitely looks stylish. I do know that these frequent at shows and eBay regularly, prices all sorts of ranges. I don't remember what the sticker price was at the train store. Best keep to my own list for now.

@c.sam posted:

This will give you an idea of the size of this handsome rascal!

To which handsome rascal are you referring? 

Back to the discussion of the short 4 axle tenders used on J-2s earlier in this thread - wasn't there a discussion a few years ago of Scott being open to doing additional tenders with the H-10 run for this purpose? Or am I imagining things? I've searched for about an hour now and can't find it.

A Boston & Albany J-2, all black with the Gothic lettering and short tenders as they were used on Harlem Division at the end of their lives, would be an excellent model.

~Chris

@C.Vigs posted:

Back to the discussion of the short 4 axle tenders used on J-2s earlier in this thread - wasn't there a discussion a few years ago of Scott being open to doing additional tenders with the H-10 run for this purpose? Or am I imagining things? I've searched for about an hour now and can't find it.

A Boston & Albany J-2, all black with the Gothic lettering and short tenders as they were used on Harlem Division at the end of their lives, would be an excellent model.

~Chris

I concur... B&A Hudson #611.

She's a beauty.

- Mario

@C.Vigs posted:

Back to the discussion of the short 4 axle tenders used on J-2s earlier in this thread - wasn't there a discussion a few years ago of Scott being open to doing additional tenders with the H-10 run for this purpose? Or am I imagining things? I've searched for about an hour now and can't find it.

A Boston & Albany J-2, all black with the Gothic lettering and short tenders as they were used on Harlem Division at the end of their lives, would be an excellent model.

~Chris

And Sunset has done these in the past.

Pete

Four pages of comments and not one decent picture of the MTH Hudson in question. A search on this forum revealed someone selling one awhile back. It sure is a handsome model, and at least a partially rounded boiler from what looks like the steam chest to the middle drivers...hard to tell exactly. I've been hesitant (and broke) to order any MTH motive power since the company re-organized, but I think the B&A version is calling my name.

Sold Pending Payment: MTH Premier NYC J1e Hudson | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

@Paul Kallus posted:

Four pages of comments and not one decent picture of the MTH Hudson in question. A search on this forum revealed someone selling one awhile back. It sure is a handsome model, and at least a partially rounded boiler from what looks like the steam chest to the middle drivers...hard to tell exactly. I've been hesitant (and broke) to order any MTH motive power since the company re-organized, but I think the B&A version is calling my name.

Sold Pending Payment: MTH Premier NYC J1e Hudson | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

Paul, glad to hear you're on board.  We've all been there, and support is key these days.  We're lucky that we not only have a great team here on the forum, like nearly every one of the members that commented on this thread.  Most have not only done a lot of their own work, but many, many do it for others as well. 

With that said, there's nothing like factory support, which is why I only order my trains from @JR Junction Train & Hobby in Syracuse.  Not only do I know and trust Phil, but his own brother does all his repairs, and has repaired just the 2 things that I have issues with.  Not to mention, he's also doing the custom run of an MTH B&A caboose, which would make a gorgeous milk train.

- Mario

A friend sent me a pic of a Hudson with elephant ears.  I wish I could post but I'm sure it's copy writed so I can't.  Anyone ever seen a hudson with ears?  The road number was 52-- something.   As for seeing a MTH hudson.  Here's one from way back that I had converted to Legacy.  Figured the new B&A will look the same as this pre 2010 offering?

@C.Vigs posted:

Back to the discussion of the short 4 axle tenders used on J-2s earlier in this thread - wasn't there a discussion a few years ago of Scott being open to doing additional tenders with the H-10 run for this purpose? Or am I imagining things? I've searched for about an hour now and can't find it.

A Boston & Albany J-2, all black with the Gothic lettering and short tenders as they were used on Harlem Division at the end of their lives, would be an excellent model.

~Chris

Yes there was and I was the one who asked.  I haven't brought the subject back up with Scott as I'm still on the fence about ordering the H10.  He was willing when I asked.  We wouldn't need it painted, no electronics.  Just a nice brass tender.