I was at the World's Greatest Hobby show in Houston today. Gobs of layouts. The big importers were there. But very few dealers. Is this the future of WGH, or is this a one off sort of thing?
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Dominic Mazoch posted:I was at the World's Greatest Hobby show in Houston today. Gobs of layouts. The big importers were there. But very few dealers. Is this the future of WGH, or is this a one off sort of thing?
How many "dealers" are there in that part of Texas? Depending on the location of these World's Greatest Hobby shows, there are many "dealers" and they do indeed show up. Locations with limited "dealers", well then none show up.
Hurricane Harvey made them think twice about booking the Houston show. Blame the media. Those outside the area still have the images from August dancing around in their heads. Coverage of the recovery has been almost nil. Maybe next time.
What, me worry?
Well. I was thinking of going. The TCA show in January was pretty bad. If not a lot of dealers I have no interest.
Unfortunately train stores in Houston are scarce and what we do have is unimpressive.
TexasSP posted:Unfortunately train stores in Houston are scarce and what we do have is unimpressive.
That's because the water table is too high, so there are not enough basements to support the train stores. Well, that and you're not socked in much of the winter by the weather.
What, me worry?
The TCA meet was not in its usual place because of Harvey. And there is the one in Stafford which is every year. I do not think H-Town can support three shows in a month.
The first WGH show I went to in Indianapolis was fantastic. The second one was a bust. Very few dealers showed up. The great train expo used to have good shows but the last 2 I went to didn't have many dealers either. I don't know what's going on with these shows but i'm afraid they maybe a thing of the past. The shows were packed so I don't understand why the dealers are not showing up anymore.
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But I noted another issue. There were not that many RTR sets, new FasTrack, et. al. for sale, at least in O. I know there are some odd rules for selling new stuff at meets, but WGH is sponsored by the importers. The radio importers have fewer crazy rules at major ham radio events. The rail hobby needs to lighten up.
But on the other hand, I as a dealer may not want to come to this event. I saw uncontrollable children; many never taught to touch with eyes only. There were some really good ones around. But not many.
The free entrance for WGH might have been a great idea in the beginning. But the feeling I got was this was a free babysitter or entertainment for the day. Yes, there is an entertainment from the hobby. But not that kind. Unless one was there, one may not understand.
Plus, I do not trust the HOU CHRON. Big piece of soundbite.
I was one of the exhibitors at the WGH show (A modular club member). I wasn’t that thrilled with what was available, either.
Despite the fact that I chose a very specialized era and restrict my locomotive and car-buying, I did enjoy looking at what Lionel, MTH, and Bachmann had available, whether I was going to buy or not. And despite the fact that I’m not in the smaller scales, I still have a soft spot for Athearn and Broadway Limited (But BLI’s O scale water tanks are now available!). I was disappointed not to see either Woodland Scenics or Atlas.
I wasn’t that happy with what the O scale vendors had for sale. True, there was some three-rail available, but there wasn’t that much of the newest and latest out there. But if I were someone trying to buy parts to resurrect Grandpa’s old Lionel set or even replace Grandpa’s track with Lionel Fast Track, I would have been an unhappy camper. At least we three-railers were better off than people working in Sn3. Those guys would have been completely SOL. People in two-rail O and On30 weren’t all that much better off than Sn3 guys would have been.
Still, I was impressed with a lot of the display layouts. Several HO clubs had modular layouts, as did a couple of S scale clubs, there were some interesting T-track displays, and there were two modular O three-rail layouts.
I am concerned about the hobby’s future. We do need younger modelers, and I think modular and T-track layouts help. But I think WGH and other shows could have used more sets and dealers with better selections. I was pleased to see Lionel and other manufacturers sponsor some “demo” layouts set at kid’s view level for prospective newbies, but either how-to clinics or letting folks see how some modelers go about laying track or painting structures wouldn’t have hurt. I’m not picky about who we recruit, either. If, by some chance, South Asians and East Asians want to join up, I say welcome to our ranks!
I don’t think we should slam modular layouts. Whether we like it or not, I suspect that a lot of future modular activity in going to be done on modular layouts as more and more of us find ourselves without basements or other wide open spaces.
The WGH show is not meant to be a swap meet. It is meant to showcase the hobby. That is why it is top heavy on layouts and manufacturers. Die hard model railroaders expecting to see a wide variety of dealers will always be disappointed with a WGH event.
If you think "uncontrollable" children is only a problem at WGH events, you haven't been a vendor at very many train shows. They can be in attendance at any train show, regardless of admission policy or show location.
The Houston TCA show relocation had nothing to do with Hurricane Harvey. This year it was in the Hilton. Last year it was in the Marriot. There were venue issues with the Katy VFW long before Harvey. As a vendor at the show, it did not suffer from the location change. If anything, it was an improvement since the layouts with their smoke stench were set up in a different room from the vendors. And, as usual, it was good to see Mike and the rest of the Trainworx crew.
It's a shame the Houston area can only support 3 quality train related hobby shops. Granted, basements are a rare commodity, but Houston model railroaders have found many creative ways around that problem. There are many top quality layouts in the area that can usually be seen during the annual layout tour in the fall.
As always ..... opinion.
ecd15 posted:The WGH show is meant to be a swap meet. It is meant to showcase the hobby. That is why it is top heavy on layouts and manufacturers. Die hard model railroaders expecting to see a wide variety of dealers will always be disappointed with a WGH event.
If you think "uncontrollable" children is only a problem at WGH events, you haven't been a vendor at very many train shows. They can be in attendance at any train show, regardless of admission policy or show location.
The Houston TCA show relocation had nothing to do with Hurricane Harvey. This year it was in the Hilton. Last year it was in the Marriot. There were venue issues with the Katy VFW long before Harvey. As a vendor at the show, it did not suffer from the location change. If anything, it was an improvement since the layouts with their smoke stench were set up in a different room from the vendors. And, as usual, it was good to see Mike and the rest of the Trainworx crew.
It's a shame the Houston area can only support 3 quality train related hobby shops. Granted, basements are a rare commodity, but Houston model railroaders have found many creative ways around that problem. There are many top quality layouts in the area that can usually be seen during the annual layout tour in the fall.
As always ..... opinion.
Bob, that's the problem. How can you have a hobby show let alone a swap meet if you don't have venders and dealers? It didn't use to be that way.
ecd15 posted:The WGH show is meant to be a swap meet. It is meant to showcase the hobby. That is why it is top heavy on layouts and manufacturers.
As always ..... opinion.
I think you meant:
The WGH show is NOT meant to be a swap meet.
Stu
NOT LionelLLC posted:ecd15 posted:The WGH show is meant to be a swap meet. It is meant to showcase the hobby. That is why it is top heavy on layouts and manufacturers. Die
As always ..... opinion.
I think you meant:
The WGH show is NOT meant to be a swap meet.
Stu
Stu,
Of course, you are correct. let me correct that major typo.
I am sure that the WGH show is a great place to take your family for an weekend outing. Most of the train shows in Texas afford that opportunity as well, so the WGH is not unusual.
I have never gone to a WGH to sell or buy. I can go to the Houston TCA show or a local train show in Texas and see far more S and O trains for sale than at the WGH. For new stuff the internet is a much more powerful tool.
The Houston TCA show table cost was about $0.90 per square foot of table space.
The WGH is about $3.60 per square foot of table space. Unless the WGH brings in 4 times more dedicated O or S gauge buying public I can't see the point of going to sell.
Also, at the Houston TCA show you can sell from behind your table which is a huge advantage.
If I were selling I would judge the shows in $ spent per attendee or at least the potential $ to be spent per attendee.
aussteve posted:I am sure that the WGH show is a great place to take your family for an weekend outing. Most of the train shows in Texas afford that opportunity as well, so the WGH is not unusual.
I have never gone to a WGH to sell or buy. I can go to the Houston TCA show or a local train show in Texas and see far more S and O trains for sale than at the WGH. For new stuff the internet is a much more powerful tool.
The Houston TCA show table cost was about $0.90 per square foot of table space.
The WGH is about $3.60 per square foot of table space. Unless the WGH brings in 4 times more dedicated O or S gauge buying public I can't see the point of going to sell.
Also, at the Houston TCA show you can sell from behind your table which is a huge advantage.
If I were selling I would judge the shows in $ spent per attendee or at least the potential $ to be spent per attendee.
I go to these shows to look and buy. If there's nothing to buy I see no reason to go. The GTE show is no better either. The train shows in this area, Indianapolis Indiana, have only 1 show a year at the fairgrounds.
Last time I went to a train show in Houston, they were still held in the George R Brown. Yes, it's been a long time since. Now I am in the OKC area and enjoy the show they have here in December, and I see many dealers/friends from Houston that I bought items from back when in the 70s to 90s. I also have been to shows in Indy, Reno, Sacramento, Georgia, Milwaukee, Racine and Wheaton due to my former employment. Main reason for me going is to buy..... along with seeing old friends and making new ones in the hobby.
Jesse TCA
feet posted:aussteve posted:I am sure that the WGH show is a great place to take your family for an weekend outing. Most of the train shows in Texas afford that opportunity as well, so the WGH is not unusual.
I have never gone to a WGH to sell or buy. I can go to the Houston TCA show or a local train show in Texas and see far more S and O trains for sale than at the WGH. For new stuff the internet is a much more powerful tool.
The Houston TCA show table cost was about $0.90 per square foot of table space.
The WGH is about $3.60 per square foot of table space. Unless the WGH brings in 4 times more dedicated O or S gauge buying public I can't see the point of going to sell.
Also, at the Houston TCA show you can sell from behind your table which is a huge advantage.
If I were selling I would judge the shows in $ spent per attendee or at least the potential $ to be spent per attendee.
I go to these shows to look and buy. If there's nothing to buy I see no reason to go. The GTE show is no better either. The train shows in this area, Indianapolis Indiana, have only 1 show a year at the fairgrounds.
Ditto, I go to buy and I also control my kids. The displays at most train shows leave my kids yawning as they are either look only with no interaction or postwar with postwar operating accessories.
I get some kids may play with the postwar accessories, however mine and most we know aren't interested. Mine have modern to play with and control them now from their tablets.
I think one of the worst things is the guys setting up displays and standing behind them operating with no social interaction. Come on, talk to people, let them operate the trains. Get the wifi setups and let people use the tablet. After all with the wifi apps you can limit speeds etc.
As for people complaining about kids and others touching I see it both ways. I teach my kids to be respectful and not to handle everything. However, if you don't want it touched don't put it within easy reach. It's not just kids. When my dad and I had our HO setup in his office we had to add signs not to touch the scenery. The constant issue was not kids but adults wanting to touch everything including passing trains.
My final rant is the whole cash only thing in today's age. Seriously, I am not a business and can take credit cards through my phone. I was out at the Texas Renaissance Festival in the country, everyone in every popup booth accepted credit card. If the fees are a problem, offer a cash discount. I am 40, and hardly carry cash and neither do my siblings who are 48 and 50 respectively. Especially when it comes to significant amounts. I don't risk carrying hundreds of dollars in cash which if lost/stolen is virtually unrecoverable.
It is a long way for me to drive, but I am thinking of going to the San Jac show at Stafford. Usually a good meet. Knock on wood.
There is a way to control speed on a wifi layout. Use a conv. Transformer and cut down the volts to the track!
Fortunately, cash is still king at most train shows. I don't take credit cards or paypal since I don't like to rent my trains or equipment.
The table cost for the TCA Houston meet works out to about $0.90 per square foot of table space. The lowest quoted table cost for the WGH show works out to about $3.60 per square foot of table space. Unless the WGH can bring in 4 times the number of serious O and S gauge buying public, I'm better off at the smaller train shows like the TCA Houston show or Stafford. And at the TCA Houston show the vendor was behind the table which is a tremendous advantage over booth selling.
In the end, the only measurement of success is total sales versus total costs. For me, I'd rather spend time with 800 people that were serious potential buyers than 40,000 people with a newspaper coupon just out for a weekend with the family.
WGH is great for a family weekend outing and giving exposure to the toy train industry. And the manufacturers tend to support it as a way of getting people into the hobby.
I don't confuse GATS and WGH shows with the old time small local train meets. In this rapidly shrinking hobby the number of small time dealers you see at any train shows is decreasing as well. I would compare the train meets with flea markets and garage sales. You can't go expecting to find a full range of all items at any of them. You just go to shop, enjoy and look for something of interest.
If you are looking for a full inventory of all manufactured items, you would be better off using the internet auction sites and the list of OGR sponsors.
Expecting to find everything you want at a discount, no tax, no shipping, and full warranty at a train show is less than realistic.
