What do you think is the BIGGEST obstacle to starting a 3-Rail O Gauge layout?

"What do you think is the biggest obstacle to starting a layout?"

Inertia.

Pete

BIGGEST  obstacle,  bigger building...........,      someday............

MONEY

The Top two things expressed to me by other people: space and expense, in respect to HO v. O.

The space issue is puzzling to me.  Why?  Yes the overall volume of O scale is bigger than HO.  However, the "standard" curvature in sets are IDENTICAL.  Both are 18 radius.

I can place the "same" layout, in either scale, on an 8 by 4 board.

The expense is a tricky question, because if you are patient and a good shopper, you can get a lot of good quality "O" scale stuff inexpensively and the RESALE value is far greater in O.  80% of modelers have HO stuff.  HO stuff is virtually worthless...does not hold its value--not even close--if someone disagrees you may purchase my 1000s worth of HO stuff.

I was an HO guy for close to 40 years.  I just can't believe how expensive this stuff is today--new retail.  I personally just like "O" because it is bigger!  It's all great stuff and fun.

I admit yes you can get the HO stuff cheaper especially at shows where I've seen it sold in huge lots for next-to-nothing.

When the HO visitors complain about the third rail, and profess to be tired of microscope modeling, tell them about O SCALE 2 rail, 0n3, or even On30, which l dislike, but can be run on their existing track.  There is salvation for them.

Space. My small layout has come and gone with changes in number of household occupants. Gone at the moment, leaving me with a loop around the tree for a month out of the year. 

I would say space is the true limiting factor, followed by money.  Inertia is a distant 3rd.

George

Getting started.  I have a friend who is going to start on his "dream layout" as soon as he cleans out his large basement.  He's been going to train shows and telling me this since before my youngest was born.  She's in college now...

Jon

I agree with George - space and money....

The middle rail?

Clearing, cleaning, and prepping basement for it.

Money......with more money you could also acquire more space.

Michael Hokkanen posted:

Had a couple of HO trains friends over to see my layout. The comment from one was that, while he liked the larger size, he "could not get past the third rail".  I told him that I never think about "that" anymore. So, it got me thinking of the hesitancy of many to enter the 3-Rail O Gauge model railroad market.

I came up with my own "early" reasons for waiting so long to join the hobby.

#1. Not enough room - a 5x8 layout in O scale is not enough for me to "feel" the rail road. It is enough for a display to look at and to dream bigger. In fact, for a few years, my first O scale project was an RS-3, a box car, a gondola car, and a caboose mounted on a section of track just long enough for this short train. The track was ballasted and had RR spikes decoratively placed at each end. I now have a 10' x 12' layout and most of you know that is pretty small. But it suffices to keep me happy. And, actually, maybe the smaller space keeps me from spending more money than I should.

#2. Too expensive - The manager of my LHS said that he feels bad when a kid comes in with a $25 gift certificate because there is very little he/she can buy. The starter set I began with, an MTH RS-3 Pennsy freight set was, I though, a good value. But, in spite of myself, I have knowingly and willfully paid "too much" for items that I just "had to have".... How can a plastic boxcar be worth $64?? Part of this is my own fault as i am not much of a scratch-builder or innovator. I don't  think I'd last long in American OO or TT scales whee you have to make just about all of your own buildings.

#3. Not realistic enough - I have long gotten past the 3 rail objections. I know now that the hobby has many facets. Recently I have even taken a liking to and someday would like to purchase a tin-plate passenger and freight train, maybe in standard gauge, for display. But back to O gauge, what really put me off after I had some idea of what I was doing, was the O-27 variety of cars. I understand why they were made, for small curves essentially, but I now try to buy only "scale" within O gauge. There is nothing wrong with the "toy" look if you want to go that way but I wanted to drive "real" trains.

#4. Reliability problems - My very first engine, the RS-3 I mentioned, was DOA on my "layout". I took it back to the LHS the next day and out of pity to the new guy they forgot the formalities of warranty, and etc., and just fixed it themselves free of charge. Turns out it was just a wire improperly fastened. I bought a Lionel subway set and had to take parts back no less that 3 times to solderer electrical breaks. I had another engine, why continue to bash the manufacture(?), that's smoke unit and drive train never worked at 100%. I have also had some coupler and truck problems on new freight cars.  Mostly - stuff works ok, but I like to test drive just as much as the seller will let me before I buy.

#5. Lack of technical knowledge/ability - OK, so in many ways I am smart. But I have never been smart in a practical way that some guys are who can diagnosis and repair all kinds of problems. If I took a modern engine apart I am quite sure that it would never, ever, be the same. I run my trains conventionally, partly owing to the further expense of advanced control systems but also due to the fact that it is just so much information that boggles my mind. I have only just recently after several years running trains added "activation track" to my layout.

Bottom line is, I am still running trains and enjoying O gauge. I guess the positives must outweigh the negatives. I don't mean to bash are mutual interest so much as just to talk about it. That is what forums are for, right?  To that end, your comments are solicited and appreciated.

Got to go (I have been putting it off) shovel about 20"s of snow!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are all great points and I feel the same way as many on here the reasons for starting a layout on o scale are many, But I feel its not just the trains its the friends you meet on the way and no space or money can compete with that, So for all of the people who are thinking of starting a layout whatever size it is, I say just go for it and have fun because this hobby needs everyone big, small

#1. Not enough room - My 2nd biggest issue - cars and locomotive are twice as long a HO.

#2. Too expensive - This is probably my biggest issue.

#3. Not realistic enough -  Other then the third rail, manufactures have a lot more scale equipment now compared to back in the 70/80.

#4. Reliability problems -  I have/had more problems in HO (and DCC) then with any O gauge I have had over the years.

#5. Lack of technical knowledge/ability - Learn as you go. But the same issue as other scales and/or Hobbies.

Time. Every time I say "Tonight I'm going to do...." and then something else comes up.

Too many people too willing to give you bad advise,

MONEY

the biggest issue for me is cash

If you get into O-gauge Model Railroading with the end in mind, space and money have already been considered. Example: If you live in a studio apartment, it is a pipe dream to believe that O-gauge makes any sense at all. And if you want the new technology stuff, it isn't practical if you are living pay check to pay check.

The OP, in his title, referred to "starting" a "layout". IMO that supposes you have enough space (somewhere within your house), and you have enough money to acquire adequate amount of stuff to start a layout. The question asks what is the biggest obstacle to getting started with the layout. Obviously, the first item is to pick a location for the layout. 

For me that is easy. What is difficult is actually doing the physical activity to get started with the layout. From that time forward it becomes a battle to actually do more work on the layout. The difficulty and battle is that of overcoming the inertia of everyday life.

YOURSELF!

Its the toughest battle I fight everyday!

There are TONS of excuses any one can muster but YOU are your own worst enemy.

SPACE- I have seen great works in small space. Just see Norm Charbonneau's old layout. Amazing layout in a basement space that you and I grew up in.

MONEY- More excuses. I have bought scale equipment at HO prices... just have to look for it...or practice sprucing up some semi scale equipment at bargain prices. You don't need that new engine in the catalog! H&LL you can buy 4 TMCC scale engines at that price.

NOT REALISTIC ENOUGH? Really stuck on that 3 rail are you? Then paint it black... otherwise you need practice on making some good scenes. As my Dad would say stop your cryin' , do something about it or move on!

Reliability Problems?! Have you ever played with TYCO Night GLOW HO trains as a kid? Have you ever owned an older HO Brass engine? Now that was a lesson in frustration!!....

Lack of ability?!!!!  - How many times as a kid did you break something and over and over again take it apart and eventually fix it? It was pretty triumphant when you fixed it wasn't it? Nope I am not using this excuse. If you have enough tenacity in this hobby there is NOTHING you cannot do. And there is PLENTY of help in this forum.

My biggest excuse is having too many distractions. But every night after I put the kids to bed. I head to the basement and either run trains or take that next BIG project on ... now lets see where is that bridge to no where going?

The secret is to just chisel away at it.

Space available to dedicate a good size layout .

I've always since a child liked running at good speed.. O scale requires a fairly large space and straight runs of distance I'd like 10 feet or more just calls for a big space.

WIFE

Michael,

  IMO the biggest obstacle to building  an O Gauge layout is space, no matter how you cut it, you must have the space to build the layout, if you want it in your home.  I have always wanted a large enough space in my home to leave up a big multi-level layout year around.  I did use our office and game room for about 8 years, this definitely disrupted our home, and limited our living space severely.  If we ever do purchase another home, it will have enough floor space in our home for me to construct a large multi-level O Gauge Train layout, on a permanent basis. 

PCRR/Dave

86TA355SR posted:

WIFE

Hmm, that does rank up there... but I am not buying. There are always replacements.

J Daddy posted:

86TA355SR posted:

WIFE

Hmm, that does rank up there... but I am not buying. There are always replacements.

Those are expensive...

TIME and time is money. 

I get to distracted too with other things in life as my life is busy like most of you. For example I spend to much "time" designing a layout. I call it design paralysis. The other is space. I want a huge 0; 3 rail layout but then I say to myself I will never finish a 20'x 40' layout and right now I do not have that space. I have a space in a finished attic which is 1/2 that. So I will eventually settle on something that is smaller-medium sized that will not take up that much time. OGR is a good example of the time I spent on "distractions" however good they seem.

I have been told by some H.O. guys I know that space matters to them, however I have seen the track sizes sold by H.O. companies and dis-agree because 027 curves are 3 inches smaller in diameter then H.O. 15 inch radius curves. Also 031 is only one inch larger then the smallest H.O. factory size curve.  Also the H.O. curve sizes go up to 22 inches that I know of or 44 inch curves. The only size savings might be the width of the tracks but other then that I don't really see that much of a size savings with H.O. verse O gauge track. There are some people though who use up to 100 inch radius curves in O gauge so again it depends on curved track sizes as to which scale is better for you.

Price might be more expensive for brand new items but I have seen some H.O. catalogs in the past 6 weeks that puzzle me about prices. In other words the H.O. item is just as much as the O gauge item if not more! So no real monetary savings with H.O. anymore from what I see. I am comparing MTH O gauge with MTH H.O. stuff.

Lee Fritz

My flight instructor once asked me "what makes an airplane fly"?  After I gave the usual responses about thrust and lift he said no, it's money.  Same holds true for O scale layouts.  Time and money always are the rate limiting factors.

With me it's always been TIME!

I let money keep from getting back into trains for too long. Probably gonna sell my Harley eventually also. If my girlfriend doesn't dump me, I'll have the room....lol

There is one small thing about H.O. when it comes to buying buildings that are pre-made, they seem to less expensive then O gauge buildings; even Plasticville buildings have that price difference.

The only other saving I can see is if you have more then three tracks side by side in H.O. verses O gauge you can save an inch or two, that's all. The curve diameters for H.O. are a little more at times then some of the curve diameters for O gauge track, so not always a space saving there.

Lee Fritz

Space, but money would have to be number one.  We question why more young people aren't in the hobby, not many can fork out 400.00 or 500.00 or more for a locomotive.  It's an expensive hobby, but I'll never sell my Harley.

Space and then track planning would be next. I love building I think as much if not more as running the trains. I'm just sick of circles and that's all i can come  up with in small spaces. Hopefully very soon I will be purchasing a new  home with plenty of space in the very near future and I'm going to be asking on this board for some ideas.

Space and Time (sounds like something from Sat trek)
I have lots of layout items for my layout!

Wives who don't for the life of them don't understand "hobbies" and why that time can't be better put into remodeling tasks.

The biggest obstacle is "us". The rule of three P's dominate, let me explain.

"P" number one: Perfection, we all want that perfect layout.

"P" number two: Procrastination, to achieve "P 1" we delay for every reason possible, size, location,type of track, budget, design, etc.

"P" number three: Paralysis, not sure how to achieve all our requirements in "P 1" we simply freeze and do nothing but continue to think about everything we want in our layout but it never seems to measure up to our "P 1" standard.

       Therefore: Perfection leads to Procrastination that leads to paralysis, NO LAYOUT.

My #1 obstacle is time.  I don't have enough time in the day to take care of everything I need to do and still make it downstairs to get enough quality time working on the layout.

Space 

There are a few factors:

1. Space
2. Time
3. Approval from the "Secretary of the Interior"
4. Cost.

Work-arounds:

1. For space, a small switching layout can be done in as little as 96"x16"
2. Time -- smaller layouts can get built/detailed faster
3. Approval from the "Secretary of the Interior" -- submit some concept sketches. If it doesn't look intrusive, or better still, looks decorative you've got a better shot.
4. Cost -- keep materials simple and inexpensive.

Rescued Trains posted:

The biggest obstacle is "us". The rule of three P's dominate, let me explain.

"P" number one: Perfection, we all want that perfect layout.

"P" number two: Procrastination, to achieve "P 1" we delay for every reason possible, size, location,type of track, budget, design, etc.

"P" number three: Paralysis, not sure how to achieve all our requirements in "P 1" we simply freeze and do nothing but continue to think about everything we want in our layout but it never seems to measure up to our "P 1" standard.

       Therefore: Perfection leads to Procrastination that leads to paralysis, NO LAYOUT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was just about to post, in a general way, your sequence of enthusiasm killing pitfalls.  Add to it, the time spent in front of the monitor or boob toob, and it's a wonder that any layout planning or building gets accomplished at all.

Bruce