At least a few dealers have stated up front they do warranty repairs on new MTH. MrMuffin, Berwyns, and Stockyard Express. Likely many more I don’t know about.

Just make sure your dealer will take this on before ordering.

Pete

With all due respect, don’t over complicate things; either the dealer fixes it or if they cannot, you get a refund.  Pay with a credit card for additional assurance if you want it - no credit card agreement will allow a merchant to unload defective merchandise on a customer and not take it back for a refund if it cannot be repaired or otherwise made right.  The only risk is that you may not be able to get a copy of the locomotive you want but typically they can be found.

The warranty states that defective goods are to be sent back to the selling dealer. However, I have recently learned that the selling dealer, for one reason or another, may not take a defective item back. I bought a new loco last summer, and the selling dealer recently referred me directly to Rich Foster at MTH. Fortunately, Rich has told me he will make it right. It has already gone back to the selling dealer back in August, who told me nothing is wrong with it. At this point, I don't care how it is made right, as long as it happens.

@BlueComet400 posted:

The warranty states that defective goods are to be sent back to the selling dealer. However, I have recently learned that the selling dealer, for one reason or another, may not take a defective item back. I bought a new loco last summer, and the selling dealer recently referred me directly to Rich Foster at MTH. Fortunately, Rich has told me he will make it right. It has already gone back to the selling dealer back in August, who told me nothing is wrong with it. At this point, I don't care how it is made right, as long as it happens.

Yeah, I'd bet Rich would get overwhelmed if they're were a lot of defects in a certain run. 

What about something that fails six months down the road? 

If it's still under warranty, I will contact the selling dealer again.  If I'm "referred" back to Rich at MTH again, back to Rich it will go.

@BlueComet400 posted:

The warranty states that defective goods are to be sent back to the selling dealer. However, I have recently learned that the selling dealer, for one reason or another, may not take a defective item back. I bought a new loco last summer, and the selling dealer recently referred me directly to Rich Foster at MTH. Fortunately, Rich has told me he will make it right. It has already gone back to the selling dealer back in August, who told me nothing is wrong with it. At this point, I don't care how it is made right, as long as it happens.

You should not do any business with a dealer that does business in this manner.  

About a year or so ago we bought my son an MTH imperial Berkshire.  Had a strange issue where the smoke first wouldn’t work, and then wouldn’t synch.  The dealer was Engine House Hobbies in Gaithersburg.  Ken first tried to have his repair tech fix it by putting in new boards but it didn’t resolve the issue.  He then offered to refund the purchase price.  I asked him to see if he could find another, and he did.  But had he not, he would have refunded the purchase price and sent it back to MTH.  A reputable dealer does what he did.  Ken is a great guy, but I believe he is retiring and closing his store in the spring.  Find someone like him with whom to deal - some of the places that do all the advertising and act like your friend actually aren’t all that reputable.  Fwiw.  Merry Christmas!

@Ray Lombardo posted:

Ken is a great guy, but I believe he is retiring and closing his store in the spring. 

Sorry to know that they may go out of business. Lou has been great doing all my Lionel & MTH repairs on-the-spot. That will be a big loss to the DC area. I was always surprised they made no attempt at an online presence.

"You should not do any business with a dealer that does business in this manner."

I won't again. Lesson learned. As an insurance agent for close to 25 years, I know how much my customers appreciate the "service after the sale" when things go wrong.

Now that the VP of MTH Trains is involved, I'm confident that it will be "made right," one way or another.

@superwarp1 posted:

So MTH is producing all this new product but what to do, if arrives defective or breaks during the warranty period?  MTH no longer has a service center.  Most hobby shops don’t do repairs.  Seems like a big risk buying something new with no real support for the product.

What say you?  Set me straight if I’m off the wall on this.

This thread is why I don't buy new MTH locomotives until the situation clears up, if it ever does.

If there is a big issue MTH can pull in additional repair people. You are not going to get stuck with a defective locomotive.

Scott Smith

@scott.smith posted:

If there is a big issue MTH can pull in additional repair people. You are not going to get stuck with a defective locomotive.

Scott Smith

I like the sound of that, Scott. I have always believed that when you buy something brand-new (and pay a brand-new price), what you are really paying for is the peace of mind that comes from knowing if the item you bought fails, the company that produced/sold it will repair or replace it.

Much like anything that I buy that comes with a one year warranty that goes bad within that time frame, I take it back to place where I bought it from and get a replacement or refund. If they can fix it, that's fine too.

I bought a computer monitor from Best Buy and it worked good for about 8 months. It had a one warranty and I had two options take it back to Best Buy or send it back to the manufacturer (my shipping cost) to have it repaired.  Back to Best buy it went and they replaced with a new unit.

If I had a defective Lionel product within the one year warranty period, I'd do the exact same thing. Anything I buy new regardless of who makes it, is always bought through a reputable and reliable dealer. This ensures returns and warranty claims with any manufacture are not my problem.

@hokie71 posted:

This thread is why I don't buy new MTH locomotives until the situation clears up, if it ever does.

This thread has nothing to do with new MTH locomotives and any situation. It has to do with a dealer offering crappy, substandard support. That has nothing to do with MTH. MTH isn't the one dropping the ball here, and they've already said they'll make it right if the people who sold it won't.

@Bruce Brown posted:

Sorry to know that they may go out of business. Lou has been great doing all my Lionel & MTH repairs on-the-spot. That will be a big loss to the DC area. I was always surprised they made no attempt at an online presence.

I know, I know.  Kind of a hidden gem.  Like many things in life - some of the loudest online or social media voices are full of it in reality.  What’s the old expression? Big hat no cattle or something.

Good to know of another hobbyist in the DC area.  Take care.

@superwarp1 posted:

So MTH is producing all this new product but what to do, if arrives defective or breaks during the warranty period?  MTH no longer has a service center.  Most hobby shops don’t do repairs.  Seems like a big risk buying something new with no real support for the product.

What say you?  Set me straight if I’m off the wall on this.

@Magicland posted:

This thread has nothing to do with new MTH locomotives and any situation. It has to do with a dealer offering crappy, substandard support. That has nothing to do with MTH. MTH isn't the one dropping the ball here, and they've already said they'll make it right if the people who sold it won't.

???????, I will definitely try to do better reading the posts.

@Magicland posted:

MTH isn't the one dropping the ball here, and they've already said they'll make it right if the people who sold it won't.

For those of us who presently aren't sure, and on the fence about buying, precisely where and when was this commitment published?  On the website, in an email, via a press release?

Some would just like a little piece of mind here.

Mike

Mike, Magicland's comment is a result of what I posted here. I have a defective MTH product, and the selling dealer, instead of taking it back for repair or replacement, referred me directly to Rich Foster at MTH. Due to the way the MTH warranty is written, I was very surprised by this, but I am confident it will be made right as I have an email from Rich telling me just that.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

For those of us who presently aren't sure, and on the fence about buying, precisely where and when was this commitment published?  On the website, in an email, via a press release?

Some would just like a little piece of mind here.

Mike

From MTH website.  Most credit cards also insulate the customer from defective merchandise.  The risk here is the crappy dealer not MTH.

M.T.H. Limited Warranty Registration

Warranty Terms On Products Produced Before June 1, 2021

As of June 1, 2021 products purchased from an Authorized M.T.H. Retailer are covered by this warranty provided the product was manufactured within one year of the date of purchase. This warranty is for the original purchaser and is non-transferable.

M.T.H. products purchased within one year from the date of manufacture are warrantied against defects in material or workmanship, excluding wear items such as light bulbs, pick-up rollers, batteries, smoke unit wicks, and traction tires. M.T.H. Authorized Retailers will replace, refund, or credit the defective item if:

• The item was manufactured within the previous year
• It was purchased from an M.T.H. Authorized Retailer

IMPORTANT NOTE: Transportation costs incurred by the customer are not covered under this warranty.

This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may have other rights that vary from state to state. Specific questions regarding the warranty may be forwarded to M.T.H. Directly.

As of May 1, 2021, any item sporting a Shipping Date that reads: Delivered APR. 2020 or earlier will be considered an Out-of-Warranty repair. On each subsequent month after May 1, 2021, any item sporting a Shipping Date that reads earlier than the previous month and one year or earlier will be considered an Out-of-Warranty repair. For example, as of May 2021, if an item has a delivery date of: "Delivered: MAY. 2021", it has one year of warranty coverage remaining until MAY 31, 2022; if an item has a delivery date of: "Delivered: APR. 2021", it has 11 months of warranty coverage remaining until April 30, 2022; if an item has a delivery date of: "Delivered: MAR. 2021", it has 10 months of warranty coverage remaining until March 31, 2022; and so forth.

Purchases from eBay or other online auction or selling sites will NOT be covered under warranty unless the seller is an M.T.H. Authorized Retailer.

See our Website www.mthtrains.com to identify an M.T.H. Retailer near you.

M.T.H. products may be registered online in advance of warranty coverage by clicking the link below. The original sales receipt and the conditions below must be met regardless of whether the product is registered on the M.T.H. website in order to obtain warranty coverage.

To register your warranty, click HERE

Products manufactured after the one-year cutoff from the date of purchase are not covered under any warranty by M.T.H. Electric Trains. The manufacture date of an item can be verified on the item's detail page “Delivery Status" field on the M.T.H. website (www.mthtrains.com).

Warranty Terms On Products Produced After June 1, 2021

Items shipped after May 31, 2021, will carry a one-year warranty from the date of manufacture for the MTH Authorized Retailer who sold the product. Any defective items should be returned to the dealer where purchased.  If the dealer has trained service techs, they can offer to repair the locomotive (MTH will supply warranty parts as needed free of charge. If parts are not available a refund will be given to the dealer).  MTH will no longer provide repair service on any products at its corporate headquarters.  If an item is defective and cannot be repaired, it needs to be returned to the original purchasing dealer and the end-user can obtain a refund from the retailer. The original purchasing dealer will then return the item to MTH for credit.  Customers may want to request that their items are tested by the retailer prior to taking the item home. All items are tested by M.T.H. Electric Trains prior to shipment from our production facilities.

M.T.H. products purchased within one year from the date of manufacture are warrantied against defects in material or workmanship, excluding wear items such as light bulbs, pick-up rollers, batteries, smoke unit wicks, and traction tires. M.T.H. Authorized Retailers will replace, refund, or credit the defective item if:

• The item was manufactured within the previous year
• It was purchased from M.T.H. or an M.T.H. Distributor by an M.T.H. Authorized Retailer

IMPORTANT NOTE: Transportation costs incurred by the customer are not covered under this warranty.

Purchases from eBay or other online auction or selling sites will NOT be covered under warranty unless the seller is an M.T.H. Authorized Retailer.

Per Mike Wolf's retirement announcement letter sent June 9 of last year outlining the service policy for the prior year's sales, that policy still stands. Items can be repaired by MTH's Service Center Network and the new parts business will provide needed parts to the service centers free of charge.  The new warranty terms outlined above do not apply to products shipped prior to May 31, 2021.

Determining The Date Of Manufacture

All items will be considered an Out-of-Warranty repair if that item did not fail within one year from the month and year of manufacture. The Date of Manufacture can be determined by reviewing an item's detail page on the M.T.H. Website.

In the current situation, lots of product repairs or replacements are taking longer.  Have a Subaru with a fire recall that won't go out until early February and parts are not available.  Advice is to park it outside .  Have decided to place a smoke alarm in the garage, connected to another indoor smoke alarm.

I'm sure as long as MTH exists they will honor the product warranty, but there may be delays and glitches due to stressed out or compromised dealers, supply chain issues.  Things are not "normal" right now.  The short run is relatively clear for MTH and the hobby.  The long run is, as always, a bit more uncertain than previously, in the view of many folks.  Difficult times.

I recently bought an MTH Premier VO 1000 engine from Trainworld.  The smoke unit was programmed incorrectly and the shell melted. The engine was out of what is the new warranty policy as I understand it ( one year from the date the unit was shipped). Trainworld handled the problem perfectly. They tried to get me a new shell as I wanted to keep the engine. No shells were available. They then offered to help me reprogram the chain file, give me a store credit, or a refund with no restocking fee because this was a defective item. I chose the refund route and I was sent a prepaid return shipping label. The only cost to me was the original shipping charge. I thought that was very fair as none of this was Trainworld's fault. I would hope most stores would follow this type of model.

I have bought many MTH products from most of the O Gauge sponsors and many of our members. The experiences have been overwhelmingly positive. In the past I had no fear buying an MTH product from an MTH dealer because the old warranty policy protected you for one year from date of purchase. Now you are really on your own buying anything more than a year old. I suppose MTH had to put some limit on the time offering of the warranty, but the old policy was a nice safety net. Now you are really dependent on how the dealer wants to treat you. Hopefully the dealers and MTH will adjust to the inconvenience of selling a defective item as we have had to do in receiving it. I'm very glad that Gary started this thread because I'm interested in hearing of Forum members' experiences and opinions under the new MTH warranty policy.

Ed

@Norton posted:

At least a few dealers have stated up front they do warranty repairs on new MTH. MrMuffin, Berwyns, and Stockyard Express. Likely many more I don’t know about.

Just make sure your dealer will take this on before ordering.

Pete

Will these dealer accept “warranty repairs” on items they haven’t sold? Unlikely.

Pete makes a great point. Ask about warranty service before you buy.

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Will these dealer accept “warranty repairs” on items they haven’t sold? Unlikely.

Pete makes a great point. Ask about warranty service before you buy.

That’s always been kinda taboo from the word go as long as model trains have been bought & sold, …..a good dealer will take on warranty repairs they didn’t sell. When dad had his train stores, we took on all warranty work even on stuff we didn’t sell, for the simple fact maybe we’d gain a customer, and it was just plain good will, …..a disgusted customer that gets out of the hobby doesn’t do any retailer any good when that happens…….Some retailers just plain outright had no service center, so we had relationships with those retailers to do their warranty work or billable work for them……back then, both Lionel & MTH did a good job of “looking out for us” ……I know the folks at the helm of MTH now, and they’ll rectify BlueComet400’s issue, I’m sure of that, ……why his dealer just doesn’t take this engine(s) back, and either get them fixed, or simply refund him and then get his credit via MTH is a mystery to me,……..seems as if his dealer is washing his hands of it …..

Pat

Well stated PAT.  I had a good friend that owned a very successful LHS, deceased now, when he had his store,never questioned a customer about the trouble he had. I had asked why he did that? He said, it was to keep him coming back as a happy customer.  Word of this does get out and in turn more people will be coming into the store.  He also had a top notch service staff working to fix repairs. In the end he had a mountain of people that were very happy and also did a great business with a very cordial staff.  People new they could trust him and also he had very many friends as a result of being honest. RIP BARRY.

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Will these dealer accept “warranty repairs” on items they haven’t sold? Unlikely.

Pete makes a great point. Ask about warranty service before you buy.

This all this was stated a few years ago, maybe even by Mike Wolf when he announced MTH would be closing their doors on THIS forum. Engines had already been cataloged and scheduled for delivery. He said dealers who choose to remain MTH dealers would take on the responsibility for warranty repairs. If parts were not available nor a replacement item available, the purchase price would be refunded. Some dealers announced they would no longer sell MTH and others actually closed their doors.

Dealers who remained, some at least said they would handle the claim if you bought the item from them. Independent ASCs would no longer get reimbursed for warranty work. If I am not mistaken MTH dealers never got reimbursed for labor in any event so there is zero incentive for doing warranty claims for items not purchased from them. Makes sense to me.

Pete

If service centers are not compensated for doing warranty work, then it's no wonder they don't want to do it. However, details like that should be worked out between the manufacturer and the dealers and should not trickle-down and become the customers' problem. We, the customers, have met our end of the bargain: we have bought brand-new equipment, paid accordingly, and if the product fails while it is under warranty, we should be "made whole." It's that simple. If the selling dealer doesn't provide support and other dealers or service centers won't make the repairs because they are not compensated for their work, then the manufacturer needs to step up to the plate, as Rich has, and correct the problem. Am I surprised that the selling dealer passed me off to MTH? I sure am........but I am also equally appreciative that Rich returned my call and is willing to help. Based on the language in the warranty, he doesn't have to do that.

Ordered a new TIU in January.  I’m new to MTH.  I wonder if my decision to purchase new was a good one.  Fortunately I buy from Mr Muffin.  I think he is one of the dealers who will repair MTH products with warranties or not.

I have no inside information, but it’s not hard to figure out what likely happened with warranty coverage and dealer responsibilities.

The old model that MTH had was one where both MTH and a network of specific dealers had the ability to repair products.  MTH also floated the inventory, maintained a parts inventory, and directly backed the warranty. Dealers likely paid much more per item as a percentage of the MSRP since either MTH handled repairs, or reimbursed the ASC for the pleasure.

In the new model, the onus is now on the dealer to either repair, or refund the purchase for the customer. If parts aren’t available for the repair, MTH reimburses the dealer as well (but probably only the item’s dealer cost). The dealer cost of the products are likely much less (as a percentage of MSRP) now.

This is what makes the dealer’s refusal to handle it themselves more concerning. They likely will not get favorable pricing in the future, or the ability to do custom runs, etc.

@BlueComet400 posted:

If service centers are not compensated for doing warranty work, then it's no wonder they don't want to do it.

I know ASC's were never paid for warranty work, you could get the parts free by jumping through paperwork hoops.  I haven't even looked into the new arrangement, but I'm pretty certain that ASC's would still not get paid for labor for warranty work.