What Gauge Stranded wire are you using on your layouts?

For track power I used #14 OGR wire to my MTH terminal blocks, then #16 OGR wire to the track drops from the MTH terminal blocks. For switches, lighting and accessories I used #18 solid thermostat wire in 2, 3, & 5 conductors. I am going to add some signaling and other things that will probably use #23-#24 Cat 5 or something like that, still undecided on that part.

16 ga. for track power and 18 ga. for accessories.

16 ga for track and 20 ga for accessories.

This is our first layout and, after reading so many articles in the mags where the layouts are using 12 and even 10 AWG, we went with 14AWG for the power drops.  Very happy with this, but as we learned, anything more than 18AWG is really overkill. Just talk to an electrician and see what wiring is used in your house. It isnt 10 or 12 or even 14 AWG, and it works just fine.  Peter

Hello My Friends, Thank you for all your useful information on wire gauge to use.

PJB posted:

 Just talk to an electrician and see what wiring is used in your house. It isnt 10 or 12 or even 14 AWG, and it works just fine.  Peter

Not sure about the electrical code in your jurisdiction, but for most areas 14 AWG is the minimum size for house wiring, for 15 amp circuits. 12 AWG for 20 amp, 10 AWG for 30 amp, and 8 AWG for 40 amp.

Rod

Tom Tee posted:

In model RRing, not having the volt and amp umph of a household system we need to be sensitive as to lost power on long runs.

Figure on a 50' run there is 100' of wire for the power to run.  I am sure someone will soon insert a amp drop chart soon.

Running 200' around the wall in my basement with DCS star pattrern I do have some long runs. Consequently I use 10, 12 & 14  stranded star feeds. depending on distance. 

I use 12 colors in all sizes.  It makes for very easy setup and service down the road.

These go directly to a very short piece of smaller gauge solid copper drop connection.

Note how different colors make for an easy to discern diode panel:

Can you tell us where you get the wire?  Presumably, it's as the OP asked. - stranded?  And you're happy with the quality? Going to start our new layout soon as all these colors are just what the doctor ordered.  Thanks. Peter

Rod Stewart posted:

PJB posted:

 Just talk to an electrician and see what wiring is used in your house. It isnt 10 or 12 or even 14 AWG, and it works just fine.  Peter

Not sure about the electrical code in your jurisdiction, but for most areas 14 AWG is the minimum size for house wiring, for 15 amp circuits. 12 AWG for 20 amp, 10 AWG for 30 amp, and 8 AWG for 40 amp.

Rod

Rod, I don't live in an electrical powerplant!  Lol. Just kidding.  

On a more serious note, I didn't see anything that looked close to 8AWG in our home (meaning, the wires that run from the box out to the house, not the service coming in).   And, I'd venture that the needs of a home (in our case, security system, 3 fridges, every other appliance, computers, sump pump, printers, boiler, hot water heater, several large flat screens, etc.) would be greater than the needs of toy trains sipping 18v ?  But, I'm not an electrical guy so I'll defer to you - sounds like you are versed in this stuff.  

Don't want to hijack this thread, but we're going to start a new layout soon.  I happen to have a lot of 10AWG and was thinking about using it for the bus and then using the Atlas pre-wired track joiners for the power drops. Now, I still think 10 AWG is vast overkill (could probably use 14 or 16 AWG), but what about the Atlas wires? They must be 18AWG?  Do you think the Atlas wire gauge is too anemic?  Or creates a weak point for good electrical flow? Thanks. 

Peter 

PJB posted:

 

Don't want to hijack this thread, but we're going to start a new layout soon.  I happen to have a lot of 10AWG and was thinking about using it for the bus and then using the Atlas pre-wired track joiners for the power drops. Now, I still think 10 AWG is vast overkill (could probably use 14 or 16 AWG), but what about the Atlas wires? They must be 18AWG?  Do you think the Atlas wire gauge is too anemic?  Or creates a weak point for good electrical flow? Thanks. 

Peter 

Forum member Ingeniero No1 has a great way for connecting power wires to Atlas track that you may want to consider before using the Atlas pre-wired rail joiners. Here are some links to his information from his layout build thread. I copied his method exactly (drill bits, screws, wire, etc.) on my layout using OGR's wire and it worked great. Also very easy to change if you make revisions. If I remember correctly OGR wire was used on the layout in the build thread. The first link shows some pictures of the connections and the next two (later in the thread) have the info on drill bit size and the screws used. 

Atlas Track Power Connections - Drill Sizes - Screw Info

He also has some great info and tips on using Atlas track (among other things) in his build thread. IMO, it's well worth reading the entire thread. He has a very nice layout too.

14ga stranded for the power buss with 16ga drops to the rail.   22ga for power to the ROSS turnout motors, ... 20ga for lighting ... seems to work well on the CL&W Ry.

Kerrigan posted:

14ga stranded for the power buss with 16ga drops to the rail.   22ga for power to the ROSS turnout motors, ... 20ga for lighting ... seems to work well on the CL&W Ry.

Works well here also.

rtr12 posted:

PJB posted:

 

Don't want to hijack this thread, but we're going to start a new layout soon.  I happen to have a lot of 10AWG and was thinking about using it for the bus and then using the Atlas pre-wired track joiners for the power drops. Now, I still think 10 AWG is vast overkill (could probably use 14 or 16 AWG), but what about the Atlas wires? They must be 18AWG?  Do you think the Atlas wire gauge is too anemic?  Or creates a weak point for good electrical flow? Thanks. 

Peter 

Forum member Ingeniero No1 has a great way for connecting power wires to Atlas track that you may want to consider before using the Atlas pre-wired rail joiners. Here are some links to his information from his layout build thread. I copied his method exactly (drill bits, screws, wire, etc.) on my layout using OGR's wire and it worked great. Also very easy to change if you make revisions. If I remember correctly OGR wire was used on the layout in the build thread. The first link shows some pictures of the connections and the next two (later in the thread) have the info on drill bit size and the screws used. 

Atlas Track Power Connections - Drill Sizes - Screw Info

He also has some great info and tips on using Atlas track (among other things) in his build thread. IMO, it's well worth reading the entire thread. He has a very nice layout too.

Rtr12- thanks for posting the hyperlink to Alex's thread. I will take your advice and read it again in its entirety.

Fyi - I soldered 14AWG wire to Atlas track connectors and star pattern wired per Barry's book.  The 100' long double main lines are perfect after almost 5 years of living in a basement where we have very humid summers, dry winters and my twins racing their trains around the layout.   Soldering to track joiners seems fine?  Was just curious about whether the Atlas prewired track joiners (18AWG?) for drops to a bus were sufficient in Rod's (and anyone else who cares to weigh in) opinion, as we are about to dismantle and start anew and planning to bus wire this time (it seems bus doesn't seem to be any more or less reliable than star pattern for DCS - based on the experience of folks on this forum). 

Thanks

Peter 

PJB posted:

Rod Stewart posted:

PJB posted:

 Just talk to an electrician and see what wiring is used in your house. It isnt 10 or 12 or even 14 AWG, and it works just fine.  Peter

Not sure about the electrical code in your jurisdiction, but for most areas 14 AWG is the minimum size for house wiring, for 15 amp circuits. 12 AWG for 20 amp, 10 AWG for 30 amp, and 8 AWG for 40 amp.

Rod

Rod, I don't live in an electrical powerplant!  Lol. Just kidding.  

On a more serious note, I didn't see anything that looked close to 8AWG in our home (meaning, the wires that run from the box out to the house, not the service coming in).   And, I'd venture that the needs of a home (in our case, security system, 3 fridges, every other appliance, computers, sump pump, printers, boiler, hot water heater, several large flat screens, etc.) would be greater than the needs of toy trains sipping 18v ?  But, I'm not an electrical guy so I'll defer to you - sounds like you are versed in this stuff.  

Don't want to hijack this thread, but we're going to start a new layout soon.  I happen to have a lot of 10AWG and was thinking about using it for the bus and then using the Atlas pre-wired track joiners for the power drops. Now, I still think 10 AWG is vast overkill (could probably use 14 or 16 AWG), but what about the Atlas wires? They must be 18AWG?  Do you think the Atlas wire gauge is too anemic?  Or creates a weak point for good electrical flow? Thanks. 

Peter 

I wasn't meaning to imply that 8 or even 10 AWG wire should necessarily be used on a train layout. I was referring to the comment about house wiring. If you have a conventional electric range in the kitchen or an air conditioner in the house, you are almost certain to have 8 AWG wire connecting them to twin 40 amp breakers.  Most clothes dryers are powered by a twin 30 amp breaker wired with 10 AWG wire. Most general house lighting and receptacle wiring is 15 amp breakers wired with 14 AWG wire. Regardless, it's all about wire gauge versus voltage drop. The heavier the wire; the less the voltage drop for any given length and current (amps) load. Voltage loss is directly proportional to wire length and amps load for any given wire gauge, and irrespective of the supply voltage. So a 5 volt loss may be fine for a 15 amp 115 VAC house circuit wired with 14 AWG wire, since it's a small % loss. But a 5 volt loss for a low voltage 12 or 18 volt circuit would be a killer. That's why I like to size for a max 2 volt loss for 18 VAC, and 1 volt loss for a 12 volt circuit.

You could sure use 10 AWG for a track power buss. But I would try to adhere to star wiring using 14 or 16 AWG pairs if you are going to run DCS. TMCC and Legacy don't care, since the signal rides the outside rails only, and your house ground wiring. Sorry I cant comment on the Atlas wiring.

At the end of the day though you need to do whatever you are comfortable with. Myself and others here are merely trying to suggest some workable guidelines without a lot of overkill.

Rod

It might be easier to do a search the OGR Forum on this subject.  It has been posted probably two or three times in the last twelve months.

Rtr12 - for whatever reason, the first time I looked at Alex's thread a few years back, I erroneously thought there was soldering involved.  Having done a ton of soldering on our current layout, I was hoping to avoid it on our next layout if possible (too much work/time (and fumes) for a father-son project where the children are young, plus there is a sentiment that the solder points or surrounding wire are or become brittle over time). I now see Alex just puts little screws into holes he's drilled and the power drop wires are basically mashed into the screw grooves?  If so, that looks like an elegant solution.  Thanks again for the hyperlink, sir. 

Peter

You are most welcome, but the credit goes to Alex for coming up with the idea and perfecting it. I just borrowed it and thought it was a really good solution for my wiring as well. I am in my 3rd year of my layout using these connections and they are still working perfectly, no problems at all and I seldom clean the track. I followed Alex's directions for drill size, screws and as I said I think we were both using the ORG #16 wire for track connections. Other wire sizes would probably require adjustments to hole sizes. I also agree with keeping the little ones as safe as possible. I have moved a few things and the power drops are really easy to relocate or re-do when you change something out too.

I wired mine according to Barry's book in the 'star pattern' using MTH terminal blocks. I know some folks (much more knowledgeable than I am) have had success with bus wiring, but I chose to stay with the recommended practice in the book. Some of the folks using the buss wiring already had layouts when DCS came out and didn't want to re-wire. I may be wrong, but it seems like some have had to do some modifications and tweaking to get things working to their satisfaction. I will stay out of that one because I have no experience with bus wiring and DCS. I can tell you that adding the proper blocks (per the book) made a big difference for me when I finally made a permanent layout. I never bothered with them in my temporary layouts and did have some occasional problems with those layouts. I have not had a DCS error since I set up my permanent layout.

Soldered the drops to the underside of the Gargraves rail which puts a solder "slug" into the ball of the railhead making it near impossible to pull the wire out.  Never found a need to solder the rail joints together; the rail pins make a solid electrical connection using the non-stainless rail.  One power drop; two common drops to the outside rail for continuity with non-derailing cuts for the ROSS turnouts.

Rtr12- just one more (dumb) question - if I use a drill bit to make the holes in the rail, it won't create screw grooves for the screw, will it? 

PJB posted:

Rtr12- just one more (dumb) question - if I use a drill bit to make the holes in the rail, it won't create screw grooves for the screw, will it? 

What "screw"? Drill bits generally produce a nice smooth hole, without "threads". A tape is required to cut threads in any hole. If you are simply drilling a hole in the beam section of the rail, in order to solder a feeder wire though the hole, the hole does not have to be very large in diameter.

No, the drill bit won't make any grooves. However, the screws Alex recommended are somewhat 'self tapping', that is they bite into the stranded wire and softer nickel silver rails of the Atlas track and basically cut their own threads. It takes a little oomph to drive them all the way in, but it's not all that bad. They tighten up very well, no tap required to thread the holes. I recommend a good screwdriver though, I have a set of small Whia screw drivers and I used the PH00 and PH000 from the set.

Alex's drill bit sizes were spot on for proper hole size for #16 wire and the screws he used from Micro-Fasteners (I used the inch size bit - 5/64, not the numbered one). You need to drill the hole on an approx. 45 degree angle right in the lower angle where the vertical part of the rail meets the bottom of the track and flares out, at least that is what worked for me and kind of matches Alex's pictures. A little experimenting might be a good idea. If you make extra holes experimenting they will be covered by the ballast later on. I put all my feeds on the inside of the rails and they are hardly noticeable. I inserted the stripped part of my wires from the top side of the rail and spread them out a bit to somewhat go around the hole. I don't remember breaking any screws, but if you remove one and redo it, I would use a new screw. I did have a couple of Atlas track screws break when I tried to re-use them, but none broke on the first use. 

As Hot Water suggests, you could also drill a slightly smaller hole and solder the wires in the hole, but I personally did not want to do that and I think we share the same thoughts on the soldering. Actually the larger hole would probably be fine for soldering as well.

Any recommendations as to where to buy wire?

I am using 12 AWG from my transformers to the track in bus wiring with 16 AWG for short hook up to the track, 14 AWG would probably work great but I have 12 AWG on hand and don't have to buy any new wire. For accessories I am using 18 AWG with a 5 amp breaker.

Speaker wire will work if it is the correct size, it's just a 2 wire cable without a ground wire. Sometimes speaker wire is more expensive per foot then regular wire, no difference except(16 AWG is 16 AWG in any type of wire as it must meet the national standard set for wire sizes) for the name of the wire.

Lee Fritz

Lehigh Valley John posted:

Any recommendations as to where to buy wire? 

Got mine right here from the OGR store, very good wire and all copper. I used #14 and #16 which is what OGR carries.