What happens if you need to store more than 99 engines?

Nick:

 

My first thought on this is to "take one down and pass it around..." 

 

Seriously, you pose a very good question and I'll be interested to see what folks come back with on this.

 

Curt

It will not work mainly due to base to engine issues. The remote/base pairing can be changed but the "track signal" can't be. This would cause conflict as well as duplicating engine IDs. That is simple terms.

Can you use the LSU software to create multiple setups and save each one. Then load the one based on members present?

Well the good news is with 1.5 and the black modules it will be at least easier to reload each persons individual engines

 

THere was something wrote a while back about using TR setups to give you some more engines, but I never quite understood it, maybe someone else can chime in

I just sent an email to Lionel Tech asking if there is any kind of solution to this and some other issues. Email is as follows:

 

ATTN: Talktous@Lionel.com

 

RE: Legacy Ideas and Potential Solutions

 

Good afternoon,

As a long time enthusiast of model trains and a current Legacy system owner/operator, I have come up with a few excellent ideas that might not only make my own, but

other people’s legacy operating experience allot better. Currently I have a couple of issues with the Legacy system where I see no immediate fix by the “end user”…and that are a software engineering/development matter.

 

The first issue: 

We're running into issues at the club where member's engine profiles are starting to be erased by other members to setup their own engines because we have maxed out the number of engine profiles (99). What is the solution to expand the quantity of engine profiles stored? Currently we have a single base unit....can a second separate base unit be setup on the same layout so that we can split the members between the two units...the other question is...if that scenario would work can both legacy base units be operated at the same time so that members can run trains on Legacy unit A and Legacy unit B?...I'm thinking that the engine Id's might be duplicated from the 2nd unit and cause communication problems if a person is running on "Legacy A" with an ID of 2...and someone is running on "Legacy B" with the same id....Is there any way to expand the number of ID's??...This is becoming a pain in the butt problem....and a bit of a nuisance.

 

The second issue: 

I've been thinking, wouldn't be interesting if Lionel could add an additional downloadable option for Legacy to create a password to access each loaded engine? In our club

atmosphere some of us don't like to handle our locos all that much and keep them in the yards/sidings. I'd like the option of being able to "lock" out unauthorized users from

starting/running someone else's loco without their permission. Kind of like a unique security system for each loco. It could be a four number code or word or alpha/numerical. Just food for thought....I don't think the programming would be that difficult and the hardware should be able to handle it. I'd be willing to shell out $25-$30 for a download of that.....There’s a need here…and people would be willing to pay for it.

 

The third issue/idea:

Some software developer’s release their programming code to the general public to alter/and create new aspects without the developer having to spend countless amounts of dollars and hours developing every “end user’s” want or needs…similar to Unix/Linux or certain game developers. The developer creates an “editor” that the end user’s can use or a third party code editor could be used. I saw the official response from Lionel at the LUG meeting in York stating that “talking trains are not prototypical”…and yes some people like the limited “crew talk” or sound effects…but there are also people that would like the freedom of possibly expanding that aspect of it. It could open a whole new dimension…Imagine this…Being able to enter custom sound effects that announce multiple station names at a push of a button, crew talk in the dialect of the area of operation, different whistles/horns if wanted, separate user programmable infrared

sound effect modules (where wav. files can be programmed) that are triggered by the engine/trains movement (per the LUG meeting infrared triggering is supposed to be released in the future) that can be placed throughout the layout. There’s a need here…even if you didn’t want to release it for free…people would be willing to pay for that freedom.

The first issue:

 

I would suspect that a work-around for this will be the black modules.  You can then at least keep the configurations around, or have the members bring them for their trains.

 

AFAIK, you can not use multiple command bases, I can't see any way that will ever work.

 

The third issue/idea:

 

I don't see this happening, the RailSounds chips are OTP (One Time Programmable) chips and are not capable of being modified by the end user.

Marty,

We could...but even with training and "one on one" guidance...some of the older members...seem to still struggle with the simpliest of operations in Legacy....and to have them start to swap out modules....it might work....or it might be like trying to teach them to use the microwave or vcr all over again....just joking..seriously..ther's got to be a better way.....for a normal home user 99 id's should be more than ample....but it seems Lionel didn't look at the big picture on this one.

 

Nick B

 

John...ther's still got to be way to access the sound file on those chips....they put the sounds on...there's got to be a way to access that chip and modify what's on it...let's say for example to pop the chip out, plug into some sort of adapter and reload it....and hopefully without unsoldering the chip from the board.....Either that or find a programmable chip that would replace it.

Probably but Lionel ain't going to tell you how, what format and most likely won't do it for you.

Actually, I don't think there is any way to access them using the Legacy controller.  They're in a separate chip with a simplistic interface to send commands to the RailSounds processor.  Again, they're burned in permanently in the chip, changing them entails changing the chip, there is no reprogramming possible.

 

Look up the what One Time Programmable means, if you want to change the contents, you throw the old one away.  They may also use mask programmed parts, depending on the quantity that are being manufactured at one time, but that's the same picture.

 

Just because MTH allows you to change sounds, that doesn't mean the design of the Lionel system allows it.  In point of fact, they do not.

 

Convert to DCC. Even most of the cheap starter sets have a 999 engine storing capability. Difference between DCC and legacy. A system manufactured by 100 different company's is only limited in scope by the design departments of those 100 company's. A system made by one company is limited to the minds of the 5 guys working in that department.

David 

Yep, taking 30-40 locomotives and converting them to DCC, that'll work...  NOT!

I went with two Command Bases.  But only one can be powered up at a time.  However, I do use a TMCC Cab 1 setup with one of my two Legacy bases and that works OK.

 

I am easily over 100 ENG inputs, from AA, ABA, etc, Command freight cars, whale, shark, giraffe, PRR caboose, TMCC Passenger Cars, TMCC accessories like the Backshop, Culvert loader set, etc. 

 

Jon said 99 is the max. 
And 99 itself is taken up by Legacy.  Oh well.

 

I'm out of pre Legacy TRN too.

 

In all fairness Hindsight is wonderful - who woulda thought?

Good point about the TMCC command base connected, would that allow expansion beyond the 99?

No.  TMCC addresses are 1-99.  The TMCC1 base addresses the engines the same way.

After thinking about it, I kinda' thought that was not going to help, but since I haven't actually connected one of my TMCC command bases to the Legacy, I didn't know if there was a "trick" that I had missed.

The fix would actually be quite easy if Lionel would release a way to edit the command base memory as a file. Software could be written for an engine database and have all members engines added to the database. Then have a listbox that would display all the engines with a checkbox next to them when they need to be added to the legacy base file. A little code to check for engines with the same ID and limit to 99. The one problem is engine Ids would have to be given out by the club based on a used not used list so there would be less chance of ID duplication. My guess is this will never happen because I think the Legacy operating system and the Engine database are one in the same and if there is a mistake in the file transfer it would render the base inoperable.

Ron

At the NJHirailers we too have run out of numbers. What we did was assign each member a group of numbers for TMCC and DCS. You can have a maximum of 6 numbers. I have a set of NS engines numbered 61 & 62 and I have a set of Conrail engines numbered 61 & 62. They are lashed up. The NS engines are TR34 and the Conrail are TR35. I can run both lash ups at the same time with no problem I have other legacy diesels with the same numbers but I don't run them at the same time. Same thing for steam and regular TMCC engines.

Jim D.

The LSU software can help manage clubs setups with multiple database options depending on who is running at the time.  It's certainly not perfect but one can save multiple databases with different engines sharing the same ID on different databases.

I wasn't aware you could have duplicate locomotive ID's running at the same time, even in an MU configuration.

At the club I run 20 to 30 car trains. I always run 2 power units. I don't own any dummy units. It works well. I have 8 Legacy engines plus several regular TMCC engines. Now it we can just improve the TMCC signal.... Thats for a different topic.

Jim D.

You can duplicate IDs as long as they are assigned and ran as a train.  For example you can have 2 AA units assigned as 21 and 22 respectively assigned as TR12 and 2 other units 21 and 22 assigned as TR 13.  As long as never addressed as engines these will operate as a train just fine.  Of course you have to build 1 train, remove it build the other.

 

It's a lot to keep track of but it does work.

Learn something every day.

I think I would try to implement a "club rule".  1-50 (or whatever the number) are reserved for club owned equipment.  No member can use, re-use, or change those numbers.  These are reserved for club equipment.  Individual members can then use the rest of the numbers for their personal equipment.  It only takes a couple of minutes to add an engine to Legacy and, if you frequently take engines to your club, you can program the engine ID at a usable number and leave it that way.  Granted, you lose the ability to use part of the cab number as the engine ID.

 

I'm guessing that your clubs would never run 99 engines at one time (probably not 50 either) so, members who run personal engines just have to accept the fact that they may have to reprogram their engine ID and/or add the engine to Legacy each time they want to run it.

I have an engine numbered 00 that I've been using well over 10 years no problem. So big deal that's one more - 0 to 99 = 100.

Well... not really.  If you address 99, all of the newer Legacy locomotives will respond to it, not exactly what you want for individual control.

I belong to a Radio controlled model airplane club. We share frequencies. We have a clothespin on a board. The rule is ... You must have the clothespin in your possession to turn on your transmitter. That way no one can turn on a transmitter and send signals that can crash a plane already in the air. Another way might be to somehow use a different frequency for engines over the 99 limit. I know that might involve some real electronic component modification, but that might be a club project headed up by a good electrical engineer and technician. Can the frequency crystals be changed easily? Maybe we can ask Mile at Lionel if it's plausible.

The problem is the frequency between the base and remote can be changed but the information is stored on the base. The frequency to the track cannot be changed, it is fixed. It would be easier to develop software that would allow you to save engine data in a file and display them in a list box. Then pick out the 99 you want for the present time and then download that information into the base. You can have several bases with different engines in each one BUT you can only have ONE on at a time.

Ron

Well, changing the frequency on the track would also cause a bit of a problem for every TMCC/Legacy locomotive ever made, so that would be a BIG problem!

I agree John. That would eliminate any backwards compatibility. An application could be written or code added to the Legacy System Utility that could do this. Writing the database code would be easy but figuring out where to poke in the data to the base file would take a considerable amount of work. I suppose Lionel could release the data locations and lengths but I doubt they would as that would possibly open a giant can of amateur worms. LOL

Man, this is a can of snakes, not worms!

I take comfort in knowing that this is one problem I will never have to confront with any command system!  

Allan, come on. You should know better! I promissed my girl I would stop at ten! Now what if you join up with some others....

Actually, I wasn't referring to total number of engines--I'm probably pretty close to that magic 99 number already (both TMCC/Legacy and PS2/3).  But four or five is all I will ever be able to accommodate or want to have operating on any layout I'm ever likely to have.

 Ahh, Ok then. Just checking.

I can't even use up half the addresses if I take every TMCC engine and motorized unit I own out and put it on the tracks, so I'm a ways from an issue like this also.

You guys are all in the big leagues compared to me. I have 1 Legacy engine, 4 TMCC engines and 5 conventional. Need to progres on the layout more before I get more motive power.

At our club we have a white board and we put down the engine numbers we are each going to run that day. When two members put up the same number, that number gets circled so the individuals can work out a time sharing plan between themselves.

 

That worked fairly well for TMCC, but with Legacy we have had the same issues - one member overwriting another member's assignments.

 

We also have around ten engine numbers assigned to tracks that are powered by TPC's. We assigned the track a two digit engine number because we ran out of train numbers instantly.

 

 

 

might try using TR for the TPCs.