What is the ultimate K-Line item?

I'll burst everyone's bubble with proto-speak.... I don't believe K-Line ever offered a true F7.  The tooling was a Phase IV F3 which was almost an F7 in appearance with the exception of the dynamic brake being the two roof air vents behind the cab.  F7s and perhaps some very late F3s / and the railfan dubbed F5 had 36" fans instead.

On the flip side, I have a dummy K-line F3b in Warbonnet I typically thrown in the mix after my FP45's for my EL Cap and it is a very nicely done locomotive.  If I still did east coast roads in 3r, I would enjoy having a set of the tangerine and orange CNJ ones.  I have a pair of E8s in single stripe PRR that are nicely done too, but now that I'm doing PRR in 2R, I need to go through them and sell them at some point.

Also have to give a shout out to the EP-5.  It is more accurate than Overlands' brass model which was done sometime in the 80's or so.  There isn't a better model in the market for the EP-5.

For the 21" passenger cars, I sill purchase them when the price is right regardless of road.  Good solid runners that mix in fine with my GGD cars when I have the opportunity to stretch my passenger trains out to 15+ cars on the club layout.

Finally, I love their F40's.  They did the Phase II variation of the F40 while MTH did the Phase 1 version.  K-Line's color is better on Amtrak.  My only complaint is the horn is a Leslie A-200 single chime. Overall thought great offering.  I think I have 6 now including a nicely custom painted one for VIA rail.

Coach Joe!, yeah that’s the guy. saw him at Vincent de Paul’s train shows after the store closed selling lots of K line left overs and a great assortment of  parts.  I used to take northern blvd to cross island pkwy  to Belrose. I don’t remember the exit. It was K line  store #6 if my memory serves me well. They had all the now sought after black tie tubular track, sealed  boxes of all the curves 031, 054 to 072!  I still have the favorite classics boxcars I bought there, my favorites!
Fast fwd, in New Hyde Park there was Traditional Trains  on Jericho pkwy((?) Does the name Pat Russo ring a bell?  There were several other small mom and pop train stores in that part of Long Island, those were the days.

Gotta jump in here again to add maybe one more....a few years ago I came upon K Line lighted soda machines; I think a lighted phone booth; other smaller KOOL objects. Wowzaaa...

Leroof it was Traditional Trains.  I can't believe I couldn't remember such an easy name.

I have a large K-Line collection.  I don't know what is the ultimate but one of my favorites is the 13 colony train pulled by the Spirit of 76 RSD-3.  These photos were taken on July 4, 2019.  The cars are in order that the colonies ratified the Constitution starting from the engine to the caboose.  NH Joe

I remember this Remarkable set! Thanks for sharing.

QUESTION:

Just WHERE is ALL of the expensive model train "tooling" from K-Kine and MTH ???

Who owns it ... and what will be done with it ??

Just asking.

@harmonyards posted:

Add the impressive Kline 18” NYC Pacemaker passenger cars to that Hudson, and now we’re taking some nice details.....too bad the Kline set of cars outclasses the Legacy cars to this day.....

Pat

You know, these "best of" lists really often are impossible, because sometimes there have been too many to make a real decision.

Not that I'm replacing my "Hudson/Berk/4-6-6" decision, but those high-end K-Line passenger cars were indeed something else. I do not have their Pacemaker set, but I do have the ATSF extruded 21-inchers that I have run behind a Lionel TMCC 3751 Northern on a now-defunct club layout. Quite a sight.

Too big for my layout - not technically, I'm 0-72, but where do you park a train beast like that?  - they have been on the shelf for years. Gorgeous. I can't pack them away, as I have managed to misplace the boxes....

I love my K-Line Amtrak NCDOT F59PHi with its 4 passenger cars.

I have the City Salisbury F59PHi and would love to find a City Of Asheville F59PHi to go with it.

Johnathan, always wondered why some K-line catalogs called their F units, F3 while others called them F7. What sold me on K-line was their innovations on the same cars and locos that others made. Never liked the stamped rails of the Trainmasters. When K-line made them they had real looking hand rails plus a lot more detail at a cheaper price. You could get a conventional one for $100 if you joined their collectors club. I have six of them know. Interiors and passengers for the passenger cars. Scale steam engines at great prices. Scale reefers that rivaled Atlas. F-3s with greater detail than any of the others including detailed pilots, air hoses, cloth diaphragms, and more. 21 inch passenger cars and much more. They forced MTH and Lionel to improve their products. I personally think the K-line Mikado is one of the best looking steam engines they ever made. I miss K-line. Don

@Alan Hamel posted:

QUESTION:

Just WHERE is ALL of the expensive model train "tooling" from K-Kine and MTH ???

Who owns it ... and what will be done with it ??

Just asking.

I don't know where it is, but I sure wish someone would produce the Super-Snap switches. As for train equipment, my ultimate K-Line product is a toss-up between the 18-inch aluminum 20th Century Ltd. cars and the 18-inch heavyweight "28th Anniversary" cars.

Prewar tinplate is my first love, but these 2 sets are tough to beat when it comes to modern equipment.

John

I think the diner is my favorite:

Music and even coffee scented smoke!

@GG1 4877 posted: ...snip... Also have to give a shout out to the EP-5.  It is more accurate than Overlands' brass model which was done sometime in the 80's or so.  There isn't a better model in the market for the EP-5. ...snip...

I have heard that from several sources. I liked them so much that I have a two-rail and a three-rail version. The two-rail one was done with three powered axles per truck and what appears to be a Central Locomotive Works drive.

https://ogrforum.com/...0#152054912808330970

Korea Brass/Sanda Kan had some of the molds.  They were acquired by Kader Industries when Korea Brass /Sanda Kan went under.  Kader also acquired the bulk of the molds, dies and engineering when MDK dissolved in bankruptcy.  Kader also acquired the trade mark "K-Line Electric Trains".  Kader is the holding company that owns Bachmann and Williams and Plasticville. Along with other N gauge companies.  So all the old Marx dies are now locked away too with Kader.

Don,

You mentioned another one!  The Trainmaster H24-66 is the nicest one offered in 3r.  I have one of the conventional versions for a 2R redo someday.  They served in the early 70's on the CNJ.

Jonathan, I watched them in the SP round house at lunch in South SF. There I sat as a cameraman with thousands of feet of 16mm sound color film in my trunk and never thought of filming them. I guess I thought they would alway be there. Don

@scale rail posted:

Jonathan, I watched them in the SP round house at lunch in South SF. There I sat as a cameraman with thousands of feet of 16mm sound color film in my trunk and never thought of filming them. I guess I thought they would alway be there. Don

I was about 20 minutes by train to South Amboy, NJ where the GG1s switched to diesel power during my freshman and sophomore year of HS.  Why I didn't go up there and take pictures of the engine changes, the manual gates and gate men still working in 1983 is beyond me.  I felt the same as you - they would always be there.  Seeing second hand E60's run past my house when electrification came south in 1986 just wasn't as interesting at the time.

K-line really did justice in the Trainmaster in what was a beast of a locomotive for its time.

Lighted coke machine. I had forgotten these too

@Norton posted:

The ultra rare swinging bell Mikado. I believe only one has been made like this.

Pete

I've never even heard of this engine! Δ

I have 8 K Line engines with TMCC but my favorite item is the K Line milk car.

I can't pick the "ultimate", but since lots of others have gone the route of "cool stuff K-Line made that no one else did", I 'll add a few items in that vein:

1. The Statue of Liberty.  Obviously not scale , but it was a neat accessory to have on the layout.
2. The Plymouth/Porter sets that also had a set of cars with them.  Those Plymouths with strings of ore cars behind them are cool .  While I don't normally go for scale couplers for most of my stuff, for those sets, I liked the way the couplers stretched or compressed the springs when you started or stopped.  (hopefully I'm describing that well enough for people to know what I mean).  You obviously don't get that with traditional o gauge couplers mounted firmly to the trucks.  (to be honest, I'm not sure I would want that effect for a long train, but for these little sets I think it's pretty cool)
3. Of course Super Streets as others have mentioned.
4. Having grown up on Long Island, the Greenport Scoot sets were neat.
5. Another vote for the Shay. No one else did the 2 truck (until of course Lionel ended up with the same tooling)

Others may come to mind later, but those are my entries for now.

-Dave

I also have the passenger cars that go with this LIRR RS-3.

MELGAR

@Ahitpy posted:

https://ogrforum.com/...0#152054912808330970

Korea Brass/Sanda Kan had some of the molds.  They were acquired by Kader Industries when Korea Brass /Sanda Kan went under.  Kader also acquired the bulk of the molds, dies and engineering when MDK dissolved in bankruptcy.  Kader also acquired the trade mark "K-Line Electric Trains".  Kader is the holding company that owns Bachmann and Williams and Plasticville. Along with other N gauge companies.  So all the old Marx dies are now locked away too with Kader.

That would probably mean that they have the AMT/Kusan molds K-Line acquired from Williams.  Since Williams sold to Bachmann I suppose they also have the rest of the AMT/Kusan molds that Williams kept and did not sell to K-Line.

@Ahitpy posted:

MDK created and recreated many classic items.  What, for you is the ultimate K-Line item or group of items? For me, it is a few of the old Marx mold items.....The double door auto box car, the auto rack, the cattle car, the 4-6-2 Pacific, the ALCO FA...tubular track...that is still sought after today in O-27 profile...

I love collecting the double door cars also .

Do you know how many different roads were made in these models ?

I think I’ve got four different ones .

As stated previously, one man’s treasure...

that said, there are some K-line items that are undoubtedly harder to find and fetch top dollar prices. As mentioned- the 21” superliners, the El Capitan cars, and especially the El Capitan transition car are fantastic. I’d also add in the Black Bonnett or midnight chief(the K-line F3 set, not the K-line by Lionel FA set), and the 18” superliner and surfliners. Not as hard to find but fetching high prices are the K-line army passenger cars,. In terms of freight, the K-line diecast Gunderson intermodals are very nice, working versions of their operating dump cars controlled by the k-line remote(except for the PRR log car which is terribly prone to zinc pest). K-line fitch container cars(Borden’s, dairyman’s league) are nice as well.

While not on par with those, I find the 15” And 21” aluminum “Horizon” cars rather hard to find(depending on the road name). These debuted in the 2002 Volume 1 catalog, usually with an F40PH heading them. MTH and Lionel haven’t produced Horizons, as far as I know. Atlas is the only other big mfg to make Horizons. I don’t think K-line made these in 18”, unfortunately. The Amtrak are especially tough to find, in both lengths. I was able to get a factory sealed set of the 15” Amtrak Horizons(with add-on dinette)And more recently added the CSX business train also 15”. Again, The Amtrak, IMO, a little tougher to find- unfortunately don’t have a picture of those on me.

Michigan “Coach”(they call it something else) car,  combine car-don’t recall the name,” Greenbrier”Diner car (name: after the luxury resort hotel in West Virginia) diner, North Carolina Observation. The blue aluminum is awesome.

In the K-line 2002 volume 1 catalog they advertised New Jersey transit Horizon headed by an F40PH. . Unfortunately, I don’t believe these were produced- meaning Atlas is the only mfg to make NJT Horizons.  Below, Overhead shot of CSX business train, being pulled by a scale Lionel Legacy CSX SD60 passing  an MTH Railking proto 2 F59PHI(14 1/8 inches) pulling MTH 16” amfleets(yes I know surfliners are west coast, sue me it looks cool ha)

As far as motive power, I’d say WORKING TMCC with RS AND Cruise Control 4.0 are great engines. I have the Amtrak F40PH to Head my Horizon consist. Unfortunately, it’s not advertised which version of cruise an engine has, but obviously later models have the later versions of Cruise Control.

This is all in my own opinion but when comparing K-line Cruise to the other versions of speed control, here are my thoughts: Cruise 4 is a little better than MTH’s early Proto 2(5 volt boards- can’t remember which came first) in terms of low speed operation and on par with MTH proto 2(3 volt?- again don’t recall which was first). When using the original TMCC base, It’s better the Odyssey 1 and close to Odyssey 2. Cruise 4, IMO, works better with the Lionel cab 1, cab 1-L, and cab 2 remotes as opposed to MTH handheld operation. A big downside is it’s hard for them to lash-up, even when Cruise is turned off or speed steps are matched up. However, I don’t have a Legacy system which might make doing that easier. The biggest downside is the unreliability of cruise boards and their habit of shorting our or dying and taking the motherboard with them, more prevalent in Cruise 1 and 2. That’s why so many people change change from K-line Cruise to ERR cruise commander M. Finally,  Proto 3 is the best. Again, just my opinions. Point being, if you’re deciding between a 2004 produced or later K-line engine with TMCC and Cruise vs a Lionel Odyssey 1 or MTH proto 2, And you don’t intend on lashing up, these engines are pretty darn good.

also, for what it’s worth, K-line produced smoking houses. I’m Surprised I’ve never seen anyone post about these or ask questions related to them. I won their trackside collection ranch house at an auction recently for a steal! Wish it would’ve came with all the pieces but it at least had the entire fence and some plastic accessories(no people or car, though). Interestingly, the smoke unit is extremely similar to those found in K-line engines

While ive has trouble getting the smoke unit to work( the fan works, the heating element heats up) If the smoke unit is compatible with other engines(I don’t know if it is)- to get the house, accessories, and the smoke unit for $30 is a good deal if you’re looking for a cheap way to get an extra smoke unit

I’ve also heard people state that K-line’s EP-5 in Great Northern and New Haven schemes is one of the best EP-5s. The final KCC CSX SD70MAC is also apparently a great engine

There's some serious K-Line expertise here, including a swinging bell from @Norton that I never knew existed. I can't compete in the "ultimate" stakes but worth noting are K-Line custom runs, the idea of which seem to have been revived by both Lionel and MTH lately with certain dealers.

This snapshot shows a Big Boy "Survivors" caboose that I think was made for The Train Loft in N.C. I have two of these plus a fine aluminum tank car set, the cargo all being poisonous and/or highly flammable:

So much good stuff from K-Line. Who can forget the man fishing from the bridge? Then there were the RR Heritage billboard box cars. I wish they could have stuck around long enough to finish the Looney Toon items from their last catalog!

https://ogrforum.com/...1#152054912822685611

There are 9 O27 double door box cars and 8 O gauge double door box cars.

In  my not so humble opinion the Hiawatha cars are up there and of course the Mikado and Hudson.

The 742 reefers are outstanding. I think I've managed to nab at least one of each, except the Loonie Tunes. As much as I like the cartoons, the cars don't move me.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Is that the set, the mini aluminum passenger car,or the ttax set?

The Reefers. Have all 9 to my knowledge that we’re made

@Big Jim posted:

So much good stuff from K-Line. Who can forget the man fishing from the bridge? Then there were the RR Heritage billboard box cars. I wish they could have stuck around long enough to finish the Looney Toon items from their last catalog!

Agree on the Looney Tunes!  If I recall correctly, wasn't one of the items that never made it an engine that they put in one of the last catalogs?  I would have been in for one of those for sure!

-Dave

@Bossman284 posted:

it's this one for me:

I even purchased the BN Boeing Airplane Parts Car (K-691-1152) to complete the set.

Not sure if these qualify as "ultimate, but they are nonetheless interesting - a series of boxcars in their "K-Line Loves . . ."series. What I found interesting about them is while Lionel did all 50 states, of those K-Line issued, some are for states and some are for cities:

K-515701 - K-Line Loves California Boxcar
K-515702 - K-line Loves Colorado Boxcar
K-515703 - K-Line Loves Delaware Boxcar
K-515704 - K-Line Loves Florida Boxcar
K-515705 - K-Line Loves Illinois Boxcar
K-515706 - K-Line Loves Indiana Boxcar
K-515707 - K-Line Loves Maryland Boxcar
K-515708 - K-Line Loves New England Boxcar
K-515709 - K-Line Loves New York State Boxcar
K-515710 - K-Line Loves Pennsylvania Boxcar
K-515711 - K-Line Loves Minnesota Boxcar
K-515712 - K-Line Loves New Jersey Boxcar
K-515713 - K-Line Loves Texas Boxcar

K-515802 - K Line Loves America Boxcar

K641-740801 - K-Line Loves Chicago Boxcar
K641-740802 - K-Line Loves New York City Boxcar
K641-740803 - K-Line Loves Philadelphia Boxcar
K641-740804 - K-Line Loves North Carolina Boxcar
K641-740805 - K-Line Loves Los Angeles Boxcar
K641-740806 - K-Line Loves Ohio Boxcar
K641-740807 - K-Line Loves Virginia Boxcar

Here's some pics I found on the internet:

@paulp575 posted:

Not sure if these qualify as "ultimate, but they are nonetheless interesting - a series of boxcars in their "K-Line Loves . . ."series. What I found interesting about them is while Lionel did all 50 states, of those K-Line issued, some are for states and some are for cities:

.....................
K-515708 - K-Line Loves New England Boxcar
.....................

And one was for a collection of states....   (I know, the intent is for it to be in the state group)

I half wonder if some of the city ones were done for the Super Store Locations?  I am just wild guessing here, I didn't try to correlate beyond my local example (while Nicholas Smith is not technically in Philadelphia it's fairly close to city limits)

On that topic, there were the Super Store cars that were nice little commemorations of historically significant locations/events/items for the given locale of each store.  I don't have a set, but I seem to recall there were 3 of them for Nicholas Smith, there was probably a Liberty Bell on one of them.... I forget the others off the top of my head, but Ben Franklin's image might have been part of one also.

-Dave

@Dave45681 posted:

And one was for a collection of states....   (I know, the intent is for it to be in the state group)

I half wonder if some of the city ones were done for the Super Store Locations?  I am just wild guessing here, I didn't try to correlate beyond my local example (while Nicholas Smith is not technically in Philadelphia it's fairly close to city limits)

On that topic, there were the Super Store cars that were nice little commemorations of historically significant locations/events/items for the given locale of each store.  I don't have a set, but I seem to recall there were 3 of them for Nicholas Smith, there was probably a Liberty Bell on one of them.... I forget the others off the top of my head, but Ben Franklin's image might have been part of one also.

-Dave

Hmmm, I'll have to dig up my K-Line catalogs and look. Some of the catalogs I have from the 90s list K-Line SuperStores and see if there is any correlation. I have the catalogs from 1991 onward but missing all from 1994.

I agree about K-Line boxcars, which are still widely available. There were some fine diesels too, like this Rock Island A-A E8 set. I had to replace the diaphragms on these, which had perished, and it does not exactly run smoothly but is a good looker:

I would say I like the K-line American Freedom train cars. I just wish they had finished the set. I was going to sell mine and buy the Lionel ones but after I saw the lionel ones I decided to keep my k-line set. They just seem to look better to me plus they're aluminum.

                          2nd choice -

My favorite K Line piece:

I miss K Line! I also own a Pennsy A5, a New Haven EP-5, a Pennsy GG-1, and a NYC Central RS3.... all are great engines!

Peter