What is your take on the used train market?

Cars, boats   and Trains (really any toy or plaything)  Buy high sell low...stocks..mutual funds..real-estate  buy low sell high.  It's how the world works!

I was selling G gauge trains at a garden railroad meet last weekend.  I had low prices and sold every item that I brought.  I am going to the Cal-Stewart meet in Northern CA next weekend.  I hope to sell a lot of O gauge.

I think that things will sell if the price is low enough.  I do hate giving away things but that seems to be what it takes to sell used items.  On the other hand, some of the things that I am selling have been sitting under my layout for years.  I might as well convert them to any cash that I can get because it is painfully apparent that I probably will never run them or use them.

NH Joe

I recently sold my Lionel el capitan add-on cars for double or triple what I paid for them when they were new in 6 years ago.  But I can't get nearly what I paid for my Lionel PS2 hoppers new from the same time period.

Depends on the item, but some stuff is basically worthless.  (If you can only get $10 for a piece of rolling stock, I'd say toss it rather than going through the bother of selling on the internet).

Michael, my view is that things, on the Forum here at least, have been kind of slow lately.  I've seen several items listed for sale -- items that were outside of my particular interests but priced very attractively nonetheless -- and they just sat there  for days and days.    But then overall, I'd say this audience is a much "tougher crowd," maybe a more discerning train buyer to a man, than the auction-site audience.  Some of my own experiences recently as a seller would back that up.

I agree

I think one of the problems with the used toy train market is that there is so much product to choose from that people get a little numb looking at it all.

That said, when selling your trains people have to understand that unless  a buyer is emotionally attached to an item they will just as soon wait until a new item is available before they take out their wallet for anything close to retail.

I have made a profit on some items that I bought, but  they are far and few between. On the most part when I buy something it's to have fun with it.  So when I'm done playing with it I trade it for something else, or sell it, but I expect to take a loss on it regardless of it's condition.

So in short, until I figure out a way to take them with me they all remain just toys.

If you don't want it and can't sell it, perhaps give it away to someone who can use it? When i used to have a couple of tables at train shows, I would occasionally put out a few such items (plus old catalogs, small accessories, etc.) under a "Free!" sign. Boy, would that attract a crowd to my table. Never a thing left, either. And once in a while, someone would also notice something that I WAS selling and end up buying it.

I would much rather give something away then throw it away after years in a junk box. Especially  after I played with for a few years.

gg1man posted:

I would much rather give something away then throw it away after years in a junk box. Especially  after I played with for a few years.

Dave Warburton posted:

If you don't want it and can't sell it, perhaps give it away to someone who can use it? When i used to have a couple of tables at train shows, I would occasionally put out a few such items (plus old catalogs, small accessories, etc.) under a "Free!" sign. Boy, would that attract a crowd to my table. Never a thing left, either. And once in a while, someone would also notice something that I WAS selling and end up buying it.

In both these cases, you are talking about expending your own time, energy, and other resources just to find someone to take it from you for free.  Now you are truly going negative in these transactions (unless you light up some kid's face when he gets a train car for free.  Even I can't put a number/dollar on that).

Lots of stuff for sale here and elsewhere. Hopefully more younger folks are getting into this hobby than we imagine but I would think that there are more of us moving on (passing on?) which increases the used train supply.

I see great deals here that like Mike mentioned above, often sit here for several days until they disappear to the back pages unsold.  

If you're looking for something special - have patience, it will show up!

Selling relatively recent (<20 years old) Lionel and MicroTrains N gauge on the internet, I'd say that the used market is very soft and prices realized are no more than 20-50% of the original MSRP, with almost all closer to 20% than 50%.

I have always purchased non operating trains and fixed them for re sale.  I also stand behind them.  For guys who do that (not shops) we are all hearing "what is the bottom price"   People do not want to pay a fair price from someone reliable but will roll the dice and get screwed big time on fleabay.   Everyone wants to be a wheeler/dealer  and get the lowest price.  I blame the TV show American Pickers.  Everyone thinks they are Mike or Frank and want to beat you up on your price.  I smiled when they got screwed on a junk state set.  Their expert told them only a few  of those sets exist.  Experts exist in Iowa and I do not know where they got that guy.

I have always considered the OGR Forum the best place to deal on used trains.

For me, it really isn't worth even considering anymore. I have only command control engines and haven't had the best experiences in the used market. For another $100-$200 more (give or take) I would much rather have a new item with a full warranty that you know has not been abused. Rolling stock may be of slightly more interest, but I no longer go looking for anything used.

Edit: After seeing Marty's post above, I would consider something used that Marty F, GRJ, GGG and maybe some others here had thoroughly gone through and repaired. I trust their work, they are very reputable repair folks. I think this would as good as purchasing a new item.  

I have to say that it has been my observation that the for sale value of used modern, post-war and pre-war trains seems to depend on the venue in which they are offered.  I watch and participate on E-Bay, I watch and participate on our Buy/sell forum and I also watch and participate in various internet auctions.  While things may be slow here and on E-Bay they certainly aren't slow on the auction sites.  Everything goes and most of it goes above what the auction site quotes as the estimated value of the piece.  A lot of the stuff is in great condition but some of it is not and it still goes for a high price.  Also, it should be taken into consideration that these auction sites demand a buyer's premium which is as high as 19% but despite that fact the bidding is fast and furious and I would dare say the items are going for a heck of a lot more than 20% of their original purchase price.  Bottom line, from my perspective if you are selling them at the right place they will not sit.       

RTR12, you are a very smart man.   I only run command and have no need for the old stuff.  Unless a person has train friend resources, buying new is the smart move.  I tell my friends when you get it new, operate it and if you have an issue you can get warranty or larger dealers will give you a new one to keep you as a happy customer.  

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

RTR12, you are a very smart man.   I only run command and have no need for the old stuff.  Unless a person has train friend resources, buying new is the smart move.  I tell my friends when you get it new, operate it and if you have an issue you can get warranty or larger dealers will give you a new one to keep you as a happy customer.  

Thanks Marty, I revised my above post. I would trust something from you, GRJ or GGG (maybe others). You all have very good reputations and know what you are doing with these trains and stand behind your work. I think that is just as good as new and with a warranty.

I was at our local Greenberg show today, fewer dealers, a bit thin crowd and after two hours the dealers were ready to bargain.  Bad weather didn't keep people away so it would be fun to go tomorrow but I have other plans. It is like any other market-seemed a bit slow but there were a lot of high priced items, I thought. I almost came home without spending any money but that is silly so I bought three more locos I don't need. this in the post war market and there was a bunch of newer items that I didn't look at.  I know dealers want to make a buck and have expenses but they are selling USED things and the buyer has little idea what he is getting. I don't and won't eBay but do buy a lot now off the forum. If I was a seller, I think I would have a few or more items that are getting dusty and use them as a loss leader. A seller said to me as we  bargained over an engine,"I want to sell these things, not marry them!". A funny time-the market looks sft but some sky high prices too.

I did my part to support the used market- some stuff I wanted was only available there. 

If you're buying, prices are too high.

if you're selling, prices are too low.

Down here in southern Missisippi there is no used train market, however when I 

attended the Foley, Alabama train show I was quite surprised at how much and how low the prices were for all toy train gauges, esp. O.

I asked around and found that so many folks retire to the south and down size

so they have to sell their collections.

I have purchased on that EBay place and got what I wanted and it worked until 

either it or me wore out. Now it's one of those 'Queens' you guys mention from time to time. Nice to look at, and something to dust, but I had my fun and am satisfied.

I prefer to not buy used locomotives unless I know the engine and owner. I purchased an MTH engine on the forum and wasn't happy with it. I guess the fact that it was sent back to MTH for repair should've been a red flag. Now I only purchase new engines. Anything else I'll consider used but not abused. 

I've not had any luck selling the items I've had listed on the forum. No, I'm not going to give them away but I also think I'm asking fair prices. Sometimes you win, sometimes you wait! 

I see the market on Postwar opening up big time in current years. As the older folks die off and the popularity of "electronic" trains increases, more and more people will likely want the latest and greatest while the Postwar market dries up. 

The best place with out a doubt is Ebay. You have the whole world looking on your auction.

The bottom dropped out of the hobby, used train market several years back and hasn't changed. There are currently more trains available than buyers. The market is flooded with trains and the supply is larger than the demand because the demographic of those that buy the trains is rapidly changing.

Its a great time for the buyer as bargains abound. I was at a train show today and it was very crowded. The prices of used trains were generally very reasonable but I noticed very few people buying. Just my observation.

eBay is a hit and miss, got some great deals and some real very bad deals as well. I try to stay away from it now unless someone with a great reputation. I also will buy from the forum and someone with a good or great reputation. I really looking forward to go to the York meet in April. PS I just sold most of my HO train collection  via train show, LHS and eBay.  I also redirected and right sized my O scale using the same method. 

Maybe more people are getting like me.....I have realized that I have trains that I haven't run in years, and, have been running and enjoying them instead of getting new ones....

I did pull the trigger recently on 3 weaver Army flats offered on the Buy/Sell board....I want to increase the length of my Army train which is a big hit at our modular set up.....

Ordered nothing from the last 2 Lionel & MTH catalogs.....

Peter

Most of the people I know want the latest and greatest trains.   I think postwar is dead.  I know a fairly large number of train guys and only a few that still chase postwar.   The dealers that sell new trains can make a living.  If I was younger, I would want a train store.

I help another forum member sell at North Carolina TCA and other train shows. We cannot hardly sell post war trains anymore. For most of the trains that are being sold at shows prices have dropped way off. A few guys still think their trains are worth what they were in the 80's. I have a large post war collection myself and I pretty much quit buying anymore. Now I wonder if I can ever sell it off and make anything without losing too much. I agree post war is a dead player.

Rob

It's pretty weak from my own experience, unless you're willing to give stuff away.  

Then there was the guy at the Greenberg show today, with 80's prices on postwar ($1500 for a CNJ Train Master)- didn't see one person buying from him.  People looked and moved on.

It is a good time for someone who is a post war collector.  Right now the new Legacy seems to be a hot ticket.

Both Oldrob and Marty are correct with the Postwar.  Prewar is also pretty much in the same boat as Postwar. I agree that the modern O with all the up to date features are at a premier price.  Just look around at eBay and run a search and everything without the up to date features is not moving. Look at the larger train stores which are web based are try to move there old inventory and nothing is moving.

I just bought an Atlas F3 with TMCC off Ebay for $190, the seller said the sound did not work.

Turned out to be a blown speaker, but in the process of fixing that I found a motor mounting screw down inside the gearing and 3 stripped out screw holes all on 1 truck.  All were fixed and it runs and sounds great.

I've gotten what I think are great deals on old Williams brass steam engines the past couple of years, but the prices on them now can be all over the place.  Today there are 3 Williams brass N&S 4-8-4 J 611 engines, Buy Now prices of 2 are $550 and 1 is $390, the 2 at $550 have been on there for months if not years.

I've been looking for a 4-8-2 that has spoked, see-thru drivers and not blanked off (non-see thru) or Boxpok drivers.  The prices are ridiculous for the type of 4-8-2 I want.

The only train shows I've been to are the Greenberg and World's Greatest Hobby shows and from what I've seen are vendors dragging the same old pieces to show after show asking the same, high price.

I still try to go to these shows (got one coming to Hampton next month) but I find better deals on Ebay.

I can speak as a buyer and not a seller. I still consider ourselves getting into the hobby. We hit up the local train shows, and of course, all of the wonderful forumites I've met from purchasing on here and one or two of our LHS that have used gear. We went to the Parma show today and I spent maybe 50 bucks on some rolling stock, parts, and a few other things? My brother picked up a scout set for my nephew for 45, my dad.. well he went a bit nuts and spent like 300 on stuff.

For our needs the 5-20 range is perfect and I will usually buy it then. I don't mind if the cars are a bit dinged up or "well loved" my 3 year old is going to be helping me run the railroad. As long as they roll and are a bit serviceable that is good for us. I'd rather have PW or MPC stuff, not much to go wrong on them, especially MPC rolling stock.

I guess as a "Younger" buyer what I have to consider is this: With a 500 dollar student loan payment a month, and 800 in day care plus my wife's student loans, mortgage, etc, can I afford that 80 dollar new or used box car or will a 5-10 dollar used purchase give the same enjoyment and play value for my little boy?

The used market is the only reason I am able to share this hobby with my son. Without the amazing people on here who I've met and corresponded with while purchasing I wouldn't have much of anything. I've gotten advice, good quality used stuff, good prices, and a lot of smiles. I look at the used section every day on here and look for items that are going to work with our budget.

So, anyways, thank you to all who are selling used gear, you've got at least one person looking and thank you to all who have helped out Henry, Ollie, and I.

Side note, if anyone is just going to throw out old stuff, feel free to send our way, I've got two little boys who love trains. ;-)

I think the market is down.  I recently found a shop in St. Louis that sells used trains at less than Ebay prices.  The guy buys from estate sales after the collector dies and resells them in his tiny shop.  He is overflowing with trains from so many collectors passing on.  I think the supply of used trains will continue to expand as more collectors die.  Demographics I suppose.  The following generations are all smaller.  So I expect prices to stay low.  Hopefully not so low that old trains just get thrown away!  But as a buyer with a small budget I am very happy. 

Honestly, with my small mid-life budget, if my participation in the toy train hobby was only through new trains I would be priced out of the hobby.  The lull in the used market might allow the entry of the future hobby's new blood.

Nathan

Thank you all for the interesting and informative replies. I really appreciate the response.

Great time to be a buyer, not so great to be a seller. I am one who does not need to have the latest and greatest. I would rather find something older and fix it up to  look and perform as well or better that what is being offered today for a fraction of the cost.

Pete

I think that the market for used trains is soft as some folks mentioned above. I was at the Allentown train meet today. Some sellers had things priced to sell and others didn't. One guy had a bunch of Atlas Trainman and Master rolling stock for $25 to $50 with no obvious damage but no boxes. I didn't have much money so all I bought was a Trainman gondola for $25. The only thing wrong with it is it is dusty. I saw MTH Premier PS1 CNJ Blue comet steam locomotive for $390. I felt that was a little high for PS1. Not outrageous but a little high. Last year I saw a PS1 Premier NYC Hudson for $280. I am still kicking myself for not buying that one. One guy had a very old 2 rail hopper. It looked terrible and he wanted $150 for it. No way I am spending a $150 on something that looks that bad--I don't care if it is brass. (It might have been. I don't know. I didn't ask)

I think a lot of stuff on eBay is people fishing. They are selling something that they know is worth X amount of dollars and putting a minimum price on it on eBay that is way more than it is worth. I think they aim to catch someone who doesn't know the market or who can't get to the market and get them to overpay for the item. For instance just today I saw an Atlas (Roco from the '70s) stock car (No way I would pay more than $10 for one of these at a show) for $10. I thought about it and it was a fair price but I really don't need another project right now as I would have to get trucks with metal wheels and install Kadees. Add the cost of trucks and couplers and I am almost at the cost of a used Trainman car. So I passed on it. I was just surfing eBay today when I got home and I saw the same exact car for $19 plus shipping. To me that is way over priced.

Sometimes deals can be found on eBay. But you really have to be streetwise so to speak. Recently, I saw a MTH Premier PS1 SP GP38-2 for $79.95. I don't remember exactly how the seller described it but I read through the lines of what the seller said and I was fairly certain that this locomotives didn't run at all. But I didn't care because I planned to gut the electronics and convert it to 2 rail. I meant to bid on it but I forgot all about it and someone else got it for $80. I hope that person knew what they were doing and were not one of the people that Marty described.

I think the reason why the used train market is soft is because there are a lot of used trains out there from guys who have bought newer stuff and are getting rid of their old stuff or from guys who have passed on and their collections are sold. So you have a lot of trains in the market but less buyers. Therefore the buyers can afford to be more picky. Then to make sales some sellers lower their prices. In some rare occurrences a seller will have an item so uncommon and desirable that they will make a profit on it. It happens once in a while but not often.

This is just my opinion. I'm having fun even in times like this when I don't have a lot to spend.

I think there is a lot of faulty and misinformed market analysis about the post war toy train market. If you aren't in it-don't worry about it   !

I think the opinions on this forum are more slanted toward serious collecting and serious operating.  From what I see at train shows, the sellers with postwar and good prices do very well.  I priced my stuff at or below eBay completed sales with multiple bids.  I was very happy with my sales; postwar, mpc, LTI etc.  The vast majority of buyers were not there to buy legacy version 16 or dcs ver 22.0.  They were shopping for items with value or some specific items.  The overpriced stuff stayed on the tables, as it has for the past 30yrs.  Just like other retail and secondary market places, people tend to shop for value.  

I seriously appreciate that high priced stuff at train shows cause it makes my stuff look like a bargain.  

It's funny that people expect their cars, furniture and clothes to go down in value over time or with use.  But they expect their TOY trains to go up in value endlessly.

Remember it is simply supply and demand.  Kinda like capitalism.  Is this a great country or what.

Used trains, especially postwar, have a childhood memory value that is priceless to me. You cannot duplicate those childhood experiences, sort of like your first love, you always remember your first kiss, your first Lionel.

Kindly put a mint or near mint military train on the dining room table and watch us few remaining postwar fanatics gobble it up, sort of like enjoying a powder sugar funnel cake at York.

enjoy all those NEW and OLD trains...