What to do after MTH closure

Go on living, what are you planning?  I have tons of MTH as well as Lionel, Williams, Weaver, 3rd Rail, etc. locomotives.  I'm sure most of my MTH stuff will be running years from now,

The world isn't ending, we survived the closing of K-Line, Weaver, etc., and I'm sure we'll survive the closing of MTH.

Richard, I have several MTH engines, a DCS system, Z4000, and numerous cars.  I plan on not changing anything.  Supposedly an employee group will be taking over the electronics portion of the business, so I am hoping when I have an electronics failure there will be parts available for me or a service technician to fix it.  If not, I'll probably convert the electronics to the Lionel TMCC compatible ERR electronics.  When something mechanical breaks, I'll see what is on the market at the time.  I think it is too early to make a major decision to dispose of any of my MTH investment that I wouldn't be doing anyway.

I have 3 PS2 that will probably fail. I'm intrigued with BlueRail. 2 of my PS2 are ABA with 2 powered units. With DCC sound; expensive, but something I think I can manage to do myself. If the new DCS company actually exists, then maybe I would do a PS3 upgrade. We'll see.

A friend of mine just renewed his MTH membership.I am puzzled.Why?Is there something going on behind closed doors with MTH?

I remain optimistic. Someone in the know with money could pick up the Premier items and RK engine line while networking with the new DCS group as well. There is still much more to offer the true O modelers in this hobby.

We just need a knowledgeable R.R. person with good marketing experience to carry the torch a few more years. Maybe a V.P. modeler with a layout as well.

The non-scale lower cost toy items can carry on with Menards, RMT and WBB Type companies.

With 3D printing, long term cost shouldn’t be an issue while allowing the pricing to be affordable to everyone concerning NEW offerings. The other two companies have driven themselves out of the true O marketplace on pricing.

I believe the election outcome will also help decide the future of O scale.

@Nycfan posted:

A friend of mine just renewed his MTH membership.I am puzzled.Why?Is there something going on behind closed doors with MTH?

Maybe he decided he wanted some of the 2020 club cars? While they have shipped earlier this summer, MTH may have some still to sell if people want them.

Agreed other than that, there is no remaining benefit that I can think of.  No more catalogs.  Unless they have PS3 upgrade kits available?  I think there used to be some level of club discount for those.

Or he just wanted an ID card for the final year...

As to the OP question, I intend to do the same thing I did with my Mercury automobile when Ford folded the Mercury brand.  Which is "nothing", until it became too challenging to continue repairing it as a daily use vehicle.

-Dave

@SIRT posted:

I believe the election outcome will also help decide the future of O scale.

HUH?

I hear that there are still MTH/Railking replacement train parts available at Brasseur Electric Trains.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

HUH?

Yes, for a buyer it will have an impact. 

Watching the Trainworld York show on Thursday if there is a second wind for MTH, Andy and Rich should play poker for a living and drop the train gig.  I hope there is but with little news from MTH I won't hold much hope.  It would be a shame if they wait too long and let some long time dealers close up shop and then make that "Big Announcement".  While it would be great news for the MTH folks and us, it will be lousy timing for some retailers.

Even without any real news I'm hoping for the best though.

That's a BIG concern of mine.

My one and only local source for great support, advice, supplies, and equipment is heavily invested in MTH.

#DixieUnionStation

@MartyE posted:

It would be a shame if they wait too long and let some long time dealers close up shop and then make that "Big Announcement".  While it would be great news for the MTH folks and us, it will be lousy timing for some retailers.

Even without any real news I'm hoping for the best though.

MTH won't be able to announce a deal (if there is one) until the deal is done.

One would think the "big announcement" would have already been made.

How many times has Lionel changed hands and the wasn't even really a big announcement, as much as just a change of faces.

@Oman posted:

MTH won't be able to announce a deal (if there is one) until the deal is done.

Yep and that could be unfortunate.

Honestly, I'll be drop-dead amazed if there a deal this late in the game.  If there was a deal to be had, it would have been done by now.  Announcing the closure and selling off all the stuff in the warehouse in a monster auction isn't the moves I'd expect if there was a continuation in the wind.

Obviously, I'd love to be proven wrong, it sucks that MTH will be going away, but I have to face facts.

@1Irishrover posted:

Hello group,

I'm curious what other MTH'ers are planning to do without MTH no longer in the market?

Looking for thoughts, advice, and encouragement in this journey.

Thank you all in advance,

Richard

My two cents;

Enjoy what you have, I'm an operator and I am grateful for the variety of trains MTH/ Railking has introduced into the hobby.

As far as I'm concerned, Im going to run em and enjoy them until they dont run anymore. Then I'll deal with it at that point, life's too short to worry about stuff i have no control over.

Lionel, Atlas 0, and Williams by Bachmann are still around, and who knows who else may come around later.

I am NOT amazed that MTH is selling off most of the holdings in the showroom and warehouse. The majority is PS1 or PS2 and car/building proto types or items no longer in production. When you sell a large company why would you keep dead product? A new company will have no use for it and the old company can sell or auction, as is the case now, and make some money off of it. The real funny part is watching the auction and seeing people bid higher that what the item originally sold for. But the extreme fun is watching them do this and the item is still available. I was bidding on a car, decided to check retail on MTH web site, found 2 dealers who had it. Bought it for less than retail with shipping. Final  price at auction was $20 over retail and they still had to add sales tax and shipping DUH!

As for the MTH membership, Yep I did it as I always do. Premier membership and RailKing car extra. Why? Cause I wanted to and wanted the items. My choice.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Honestly, I'll be drop-dead amazed if there a deal this late in the game.  If there was a deal to be had, it would have been done by now.  Announcing the closure and selling off all the stuff in the warehouse in a monster auction isn't the moves I'd expect if there was a continuation in the wind.

Obviously, I'd love to be proven wrong, it sucks that MTH will be going away, but I have to face facts.

I’ve worked for several Major companies through my 44 year career. VP’s don’t tell you anything. When someone is axed, you don’t know until days later when they don’t show up.

So maybe someone can tell us where all the tooling, jigs, molds and production equipment is going?  Certainly not on ebay where Perrystoyexchange has been selling their odd ball items for MTH for years. 

Some company must be interested in the tooling. Maybe not the tooling in China, since it can't be moved out of China, but I believe premier steam tooling is in Korea.

From time to time Lionel just announced new owners.

I don't recall them ever issuing a formal statement that they were closing with a date certain.

MTH announced a year in advance that they are going to close.

They are auctioning off everything they own.

I think there is a fat lady somewhere warming up her voice.

After MTH closes, I will stop buying new MTH engines.  And I won’t renew my membership in the MTHRRC.  I will probably get a few used engines per year, but not as many as I have been.

As for thoughts, advice and encouragement, I would pick up a spare TIU and remote.  I suspect my MTH engines will still be running long after I stop running.

@SIRT posted:

So maybe someone can tell us where all the tooling, jigs, molds and production equipment is going?  Certainly not on ebay where Perrystoyexchange has been selling their odd ball items for MTH for years. 

Anything that's in China is staying right there!

Worked at a company that went out of business, the owner's choices are either take it all home, store in a rental, sell it, or throw it away. Then went for 3 and 4.

I have a concern another wave of hobby shops are going to go out of business, from lack of product to sell.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Anything that's in China is staying right there!

Absolutely right.  China will never let tooling material leave the country.  even if they got wind you were going to try it all your dies would suddenly grow legs and start shuffling about just out of your reach.  Its just how the country is.  Manufacturing material and intellectual property get sucked up like a vacuum.

I remember not too many years ago Mike giving a behind the scenes tour of products being made in China.  I really feel the only way any of that tooling gets used again is if it stays right were it's at. 

As to OP's original question - continue to love the stuff I have.  Look for more on the secondary market as I want to.  And probably break down and gets one of those new all in one tiu packages that only work through the app, but not until next year. 

I am still very curious to see what happens with the coming software company that was originally discussed.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Anything that's in China is staying right there!

So I guess we should all CANCEL our pre-orders starting today?

@SIRT posted:

So I guess we should all CANCEL our pre-orders starting today?

Immediately!   Of course, you know well what I'm talking about, but go for it.

@SIRT posted:

So maybe someone can tell us where all the tooling, jigs, molds and production equipment is going?  

It doesn't have to go anywhere. Who knows where the K Line tooling was? but Lionel obviously had no trouble finding it.

Now if Lionel were to "aquire" the MTH tooling, imagine the variety of Legacy choices there would be, and the monopoly prices to go with it.

There is video on youtube of the factory currently making many of Lionels steamers. They have video of products made in several different scales for several different model train companies.

It looks more and more like the only difference between any model train, is the name on the box.

Of course this is nothing new, Kenmore, Whirlpool, Frigidaire.

@RickO posted:

Now if Lionel were to "aquire" the MTH tooling, imagine the variety of Legacy choices there would be, and the monopoly prices to go with it.

That would be a good lesson in monopoly pricing.

MELGAR

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Anything that's in China is staying right there!

Not true! They can go as far as Korea.

I would think they (Lionel) could "acquire" the tooling- but the Chinese will still control it.  I would think that anyone in the business could have product made using the tooling, once the MTH door is finally closed.

@RickO posted:

Not true! They can go as far as Korea.

I tend to doubt that tooling in China will ever make it to Korea.  They don't want to let it out of their control.  Maybe as far as North Korea.

I'll just add that I truly hope MTH somehow lives on in some form.

To me, it stinks that just as I'm really starting to get into the higher end of O gauge modeling, spending over 3K between a Premier engine, rolling stock, DCS controller and track that in a few short months later, the news of MTH closing hit the media. I get it, Mike is done, tired, wants to retire but why oh why just shut it all down after all he and his company has done for the world of model trains?

Mike, if you happen to read this. Thank you for doing what you have for this industry for 40 years all the same.

Holy molly! I just got into railroading with the MTH Premier Berkshire 2-8-4 Nickel Plate-and glad to get it too! What a cool cool loco it is and so sorry to hear this news.

Life will go on and folks will find some way of adjusting.  As Yogi Berra said, more or less, predictions are very unreliable, especially about the future .

@Lehigh74 posted:

After MTH closes, I will stop buying new MTH engines.  And I won’t renew my membership in the MTHRRC. I will probably get a few used engines per year, but not as many as I have been.

As for thoughts, advice and encouragement, I would pick up a spare TIU and remote.  I suspect my MTH engines will still be running long after I stop running.

I can understand what you are saying with not buying "new" engines, since those would be sold in hobby shops and they will probably be around after the closure date.

But while I agree you won't be doing it (nor will I ), how would renewing a MTHRRC membership even be an option?  There are no more catalogs, no more new products offered after the April 2020 catalog (aside from perhaps a few custom runs that are uncatalogued), so MTH will not be soliciting renewals for 2021 (at least I hope not! I fell confident they will not be sending out renewal reminders )

-Dave

@jhz563 posted:

I am still very curious to see what happens with the coming software company that was originally discussed.

I wonder what the business model would look like for a DCS software company:

• What would they sell? Software only? Boards, too? (If boards, too, where would they be made? And would quantities be sufficient to get them made at a reasonable cost?)
• What sorts of enhancements to DCS?
• To whom would they sell? Service centers? End users?
• What would pricing be?
• Where would the start-up capital come from?
• Degree of risk?
• Would profit per sale and volume be sufficient to make the business viable and justify the opportunity cost of the money, time, and labor invested?

Interesting questions that will have to be answered in one way or another. What are your thoughts?

I don't operate on a large scale, but I get a number of boards manufactured overseas.  I can tell you up front, that the costs for small quantities is much greater than for large quantities.  For a major train manufacturer making boards for their product, they would doubtless get boards at a fraction of what I pay.  Think of all the Chinese electronics you buy for peanuts, all those boards had to be manufactured.  The difference is they were made in the thousands or tens of thousands.  When I commission a hundred boards. The part, setup, and assembly run are substantially more expensive.

I suspect this is what any follow-on DCS company will face, without a major product line that is using a large quantity of the boards, the prices will be significantly higher.  That will lead to significantly lower volumes which will lead to higher prices.  See where this is going?

That said I really want to get a UP Big Boy 4014 and probably the 4005. Now from who? MTH or Lionel? They both have current releases available. ... oh my dilemma.

You can still get Lionel parts.