What Would be the Correct Engines to Pull the Milwaukee Hiawatha?

Art, after the steam locomotives were retired, Milwaukee used E-units rather than F-units on the Hiawathas. Here is a good article:

 https://www.american-rails.com/hiawatha.html

"For the next 45 years the regional Hiawathas would soldier on under the Milwaukee Road, although after 1948 the railroad parked its venerable steam locomotives in favor of diesels using EMD's streamlined E6s and E9s. "

Only problem with the Milwaukee E units is there yellow. The FM Erie Builts would be my choice. Real beauties and unique.

Fast Fifteen!

FP7's were also used. They had 48 of them including 16 FP7B's.

Art, my favorite engine for the Milwaukee Road Hiawatha is my Atlas FM Erie Builts. Don

It all depends on which paint version cars you have. In the early 50's when the FP7's showed up in orange, black & maroon paint the passenger car roofs were painted into black from grey. The FM units were changed from grey to black about the same time. Before that everything had grey roofs including the Alco DL109's. 

Didn't the Bi-polars pull it through the Cascades?  I am going to vote for the F-M Erie-built above.

Just happen to have a copy of The Hiawatha Story by Jim Scribbins laying on the coffee table...  Depending on the exact time and place, you could legitimately run just about anything.  E, F, RS, FP, FM, GP9, EP-4, Little Joe, you name it. Even FP45 in the late 1960s.

Bottom line is run what you like (or what you have) - if anyone gives you grief about it, you can probably prove it to be prototypically correct if you look long enough. 

bob2 posted:

Didn't the Bi-polars pull it through the Cascades?  I am going to vote for the F-M Erie-built above.

They certainly did.  From Othello WA to Seattle/Tacoma WA.  They had to back out of Seattle all the way to Tacoma, so here is the Skytop lounge at the front of the train.

And here is an ad showing a Little Joe pulling it through the Cascades in 1952.

Bob

(photos removed 8/18/19)

Art, all the photos I have seen of the 1952-1955 Hiawatha were pulled by 3-unit A-B-A sets of FP7A's and F7B's.  I had a Milwaukee Road calendar -- from 1954 I believe -- with a painting that showed the Hiawathas meeting along the Mississippi River, and both trains had the A-B-A FP7/F7 consists.  In 1952, we rode the Rock Island Twin Star Rocket to and from Minneapolis, and there was one of those FP7/F7 consists in the depot at Minneapolis.  I can't say that all consists of Morning and afternoon Hiawathas had these EMD's, but there's enough photographic evidence to indicate that they were commonly operated that way at the end of the orange and maroon era. Two E7's, or two Erie-Builts, were 4,000 horsepower.  Three F-units were 4,500 horsepower.

As to Hiawathas on other than the Chicago-Minneapolis route, there probably was more variety, although I have seen a photo of the Midwest Hiawatha at Sioux Falls around 1953 with an A-B-A consist of FP7's bookending an F7B.

In addition to the FP7's and Erie-Builts, Milwaukee Road also owned some boiler-equipped GP9's and used them at some point in time to pull the Olympian Hiawatha through "the gap".  But I do not believe that's what you were inquiring about.

The best evidence, both textual and photographic, ought to be in The Hiawatha Story, by Jim Scribbins, available from Amazon.

Just what you needed . . . Milwaukee Road info from a Southern Californian in that era.  

Thanks for all the responses.  You guys make a very good argument for the FM Erie-builts, but it is not my favorite engine.  I do love it as another example of the Milwaukee Road's individuality though.  I have to have them in the traditional orange and black paint schemes too.  I was leaning toward the 3rd Rail E 7's, but traditional F units would be easier and seem more right to be for some reason.  I do have the Golden Gate passenger cars on order for this train.

Tom, it sounds like I can use just about anything that looks correct to me.  I will overlook your southern California bias as it is a Santa Fe one that I also love.  We didn't make the trip on the transfer of the Milwaukee dome car to the Twin Cities, but appreciate your heads up on it. 

Art    

Art,

The E'7s where usually on the Omaha bound trains in the 1950's the FP7's where on the Olympian and TC Hiawatha in that time frame as they where the newest passenger power at the time, when the E9's (in UP paint) where delivered in the late 50's early 60's  those went onto the Olympian, TC Hiawatha's and the UP passenger trains, But than its your railroad........ so do what you like the most

As can be seen here the list can be narrowed somewhat by defining the time period.  One narrowing factor not related to time is the type of Skytop you have.  The Olympian Skytop of the Creek series or the Twin Cities of the Rapids series?

Bruce

milwrd posted:

Only problem with the Milwaukee E units is there yellow. 

They're yellow? Not necessarily.

Mallard4468 posted:

Just happen to have a copy of The Hiawatha Story by Jim Scribbins laying on the coffee table...  Depending on the exact time and place, you could legitimately run just about anything.  E, F, RS, FP, FM, GP9, EP-4, Little Joe, you name it. Even FP45 in the late 1960s.

Bottom line is run what you like (or what you have) - if anyone gives you grief about it, you can probably prove it to be prototypically correct if you look long enough. 

Good thing there's a lot to choose from, too, because a major consideration (at least to me) will be matching the colors of the engines and the passenger cars. With all the manufacturers, and even with the same manufacturer, there are lots of different shades of grey, maroon and orange in use out there. Some folks don't mind as much, but to me a train with engines and cars with mismatched shades of paint looks plum lousy. 

FM Erie-builts, but it is not my favorite engine, Sacrebleu, blaspheme I say. 

Breezinup, I believe those are E7's.

3rd Rail just announced the Ep-3... and odd choice but maybe it'll get some traction. I was hoping for Erie Builts....

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

3rd Rail just announced the Ep-3... and odd choice but maybe it'll get some traction. I was hoping for Erie Builts....

As mentioned above, Atlas made Hiawatha Erie-Builts in O gauge. So you should be able to find them on the secondary market.

That also decreases the likelihood 3rd Rail will ever produce them.

Atlas depiction leaves a lot to be desired.... plus they only produced the curved windshield EB... I'm sure 3rd Rail's rendition would be far superior.