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I was recently asked about enterTRAINment over on another topic. Some here are aware that it was my business 25 years ago, but probably most here aren't. Many may remember it, but not make the connection to me. I don't usually talk about it.

It took many years to get over the loss of having to close, but I've moved on. Building my current layout has helped a lot with that. I view it as an opportunity to recycle a lot of the salvaged material into something much better. A lot of people have been following my monthly construction updates on my topic My Dream/Nightmare Layout, which has been running for just over five years. Periodic daily updates can be found on What did you do on your layout today? starting on page 1 of 500+.

How did you start it?

The concept for enterTRAINment (and yes it starts with a small "e" to emphasize the TRAIN in the middle) sprung out of an article in CTT magazine from December 1991. The article was about a guy down in Dallas who did a huge seasonal train display to benefit the Ronald McDonald House. At that time the Mall of America was under construction, and was looking for unique tenants. I showed the article to my father. My mother passed away a few years earlier, and left me money. We put 2 and 2 together, and decided to go for it.

My father and I put on hard hats and the leasing agent showed us around. There were lots of locations available, but two stuck out, one on the first floor just off the rotunda next to what would become The Great Train Store, the other on the third floor next to Golf Mountain (mini golf) and across from the north food court. The agent said they were expecting 40 million visits* the first year. Remember that word "visits", it will come up again later.

What's the history of EnterTRAINment?

I was fairly skeptical of that 40 million number. I said to my dad, "Yeah right, how about 25 million?" After some serious thinking it was decided to take the space on the third floor. The space was 2000 square feet, and the rent was $10,000 per month. Before you faint, let me tell you the business plan, to help justify the decision. It was really simple! Take that 25 million number, I figured that 1% of the population would be interested enough to spend $2 admission to see a train display. Crunch those numbers, and the projected income was $500,000 per year. It sounded great! The rent looked reasonable at $120,000. I signed a ten year lease at the end of January 1992.

What was it exactly?

At that point, the pressure was on, design and build this thing. The layout design consisted of nine loops, all of which had switches to form passing sidings. I had previously done a lot of work with relay controlled trains, but this would take that a step further using a computer and C/MRI to control the trains.

After the layout design was finalized, I needed someone to build it. There were two parts to that process, first union contractors had to build out the space, drywall, electrical, plumbing, everything to create the platforms on which the layout would be built. PLUMBING?!! Yeah, the city made me install sprinklers under the layout platforms in addition to the ones in the ceiling. There were a lot of hoops to jump through.

Were you solo?

Once all of that was done, I rounded up all the train guys I could find. I already had an electrical person. I tapped our local 2 rail club as well as guys from the TCA. Planning, purchasing, and prefabrication went on while the union guys built out the space. My job was to coordinate both aspects of the construction, and keep preparing for when I got the keys from the contractor.

That day finally came in April 1992.

In terms of financing, I was solo, and all the trains used were from my personal collection.

How long did you do it?

enterTRAINment opened on August 12th, the layout was not really as finished as I had hoped. The mall said in no uncertain terms would I be able to have more time. The penalty would have been severe. The mall was packed, but mostly with gawkers. Nobody was spending money. Having a business that relied on admissions, I was very worried. The crowds continued for the next couple weeks, but I knew I was in trouble, because the revenue was well off the pace required to be sustainable.

Two weeks later, the Minnesota State Fair started, and the place went nearly dead. I had a couple decent weeks around the holidays. The TCA national convention came to town in the summer of 1993, and in general, when the kids were off school, business was better.

I needed to know exactly what the problem was. The mall said I should sell merchandise, but I wasn't set up for that. But since this was based admissions, I decided to see if we could find the people, I put an employee at the front door, and had him use a clicker to count how many people passed in front of the place. Actual attendance came from the till. That was very revealing.

What was its demise?

Remember I said visits earlier? Every month, the mall would report the total attendance. I compared that number with the number of people going past the storefront. Consistently, I was seeing 10% of their reported number.

When they calculated the attendance, if someone walked into Macy's or Sears, THAT COUNTED! Of course if a person didn't pass in front of my location, there was no way for me to benefit from that visit. In the end, I learned that my 1% interest number was actually a bit low. I was pulling between 2 and 4% off the sidewalk depending on day of the week. 

I closed the doors for the last time Sunday October 16th, 1993, and had moved everything I could salvage out, by the following Sunday.

I later heard that they brought in a Bobcat to demolish the space, and it took them two days to clear the rubble.

 

I'm happy to answer any questions.

Last edited by Big_Boy_4005
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Yeah Dave, I have a lot of photos stuffed away in a box around here, after all it was the pre-digital era. Here are a few that did get transferred.

This was one of three helixes.

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The platforms had to be done with nonflammable materials, so all metal studs, and 5/8' rock and FRT plywood. The shots that are dark and grainy were from before we had our permanent electrical.

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Elliot thanks for sharing this as I had come to see it but was a few months to late.

knowing what you do now do you think a different outcome would have been more favorable taking the first floor space?

But in a way enterTRAINment still lives and am sure the space will be enjoyed by all who come to operate it with you.

Ray

Thank you for your update on what certainly was a big disappointment in Your life, but consider the positive effect that you must have had on the model railroading hobby in general and specifically up in your area.  It's good to see the progress that you're making on your new layout, and the size of the overall effort.  Would cert ainly like to see that, some day.

Are you aware that there is another public venture model railroad with that same name?  It's the EnterTRAINment display down near Cincinnati, OH, only that one is in #1 scale (sometimes called "G" gauge)  I believe that it is still there, occupying a warehouse like bulding near Interstate 75.  Worth seeing but I think that I'd rather see it in "0" gauge.

Paul Fischer

Elliot, I found out about Entertrainment and you from the 6 video/DVD set by McComas and Tuoy. My favorites in the set were the ones about you and Entertrainment, Phil Klopp and Bruce Manson.

I particularly loved what you said about your lifelong enthusiasm for the hobby, including your comment to the effect that when you were young and others were messing around with drugs and getting into trouble, you were in your basement playing with your trains. Isn't that one of the great things about our hobby?

I greatly admire you, Elliot, for pursuing your dream. I think train guys like us tend to be big dreamers, and that is a very good thing.

Like you, I pursued a dream doing something I love, that would have changed my life and would have made me feel, like when the US hockey team beat the Russians in the Olympics, that the impossible dream comes true. I came very close to achieving it because of a series of miraculous synchronicities that convinced me that my dream was going to happen. Unfortunately, I learned this past December that my dream was not happening any time soon, and maybe never. So I completely stopped what I had been doing in my spare time, and threw myself back into trains and joined this Forum, which has been the perfect antidote for my disappointment. Because of that, I only had one bad day. I feel like a starfish who broke all his legs and grew them all back, almost instantly. 

My number one favorite movie is Field of Dreams. You, like me, may relate to the Moonlight Graham character played by Burt Lancaster in that movie.  Moonlight Graham got to play only 1 inning in the Major Leagues and never got to bat. Burt Lancaster says, do you know what it's like to live your entire life knowing you have come this close (holding his thumb and index finger a fraction of an inch apart) to achieving your dream, and not achieving it? Notwithstanding this disappointment, things still turned out very well for the Moonlight Graham character, who became a small town doctor and helped many people by practicing medicine. As Burt Lancaster said, "now if I had not practiced medicine, that would have been a tragedy."

Elliot, I guess I'm telling you all this so you know you are not alone, and that others, like me, admire you for dreaming big. You have many friends on this Forum.

Arnold

 

 

 

 

Arnold, Very, very well written!!  Yes, through high school and commuting to college, I spent my spare time in the basement of my parent's 1880s home with my little 4x8 layout.  Now on Facebook, I am hear from many kids I knew who spent their formative years differently, and I am glad I had my little inexpensive layout.  I never dreamed any big dreams, but I have always loved trains.  I have often said that my biggest disappointment was becoming an adult and realizing that many adults don't outgrow their childish/teenage habits.  Regardless, this hobby does so much good for so many people.  I am glad you are back enjoying trains and joined us here on this Forum!

Elliot, Thanks for sharing the story! Wasn’t there a large Hellgate type bridge on the layout? I seem to remember an CTT or OGR article featuring the layout. What became of the Mall? I flew into the Twin Cities in the late 90’s for a job interview at a railroad signal manufacturer and they put me up in a hotel across the street from the mall. It looked as if it wasn’t long for the living. I’m glad you rebounded and are building such a fine layout. I’m coming to Minnesota this summer and will email you about a visit if you are okay with that. Thanks again!

As Elliot knows, I was there for the Mall of America’s opening week in August 1992 and visited enterTRAINment when I finally elbowed my way to the third floor. Yes, the mall was packed with tourists that week, and my visit to Elliot’s layout, which normally would have been a highlight, was overshadowed by so many amazing sights at the four-floor mall.

NYC Z-Man, I am not sure where you have been all these years, but the Mall of America has been the largest mall and entertainment complex in the nation for a quarter of a century.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mall_of_America

It’s still nearly fully leased (more than 400 stores), having exceeded initial projections in its early years and expanding its offerings several times since. On my most recent visit, in August 2017 on its 25th anniversary, the mall was still very busy and bustling with stores I have never seen anywhere else.

That’s not to say everything is perfect. When I first visited the mall in 1992, I regularly enjoyed the nice retail mix that consisted of stores not only for the female demographic. In addition to enterTRAINment, there were two comic book shops, a train store, a diecast shop, a hologram store, a large sporting goods chain, a farm toy store, two general toy stores, at least four dollar stores, two music stores and a video arcade store with state-of-the-art games. Today, they are all gone, replaced by national chains of a narrower demographic that can afford the unceasingly high rent.

Macy’s and Nordstrom remain, but one anchor is long gone and I can’t imagine Sears will live there, or anywhere, much longer.

But the centrally located indoor amusement park still makes the mall a popular destination. On my next visit, I hope to at least retrieve a bit of my first-year experience via a side trip to Elliot’s house in Stillwater.

ZWPOWER13 posted:

..........

BTW the largest mall in America, sqft wise  is the King Of Prussia Mall in PA .................

Yeah, that will happen when you take 2 huge malls across the street from one another and enclose a pathway with a whole bunch of new stores!

Unfortunately there is nothing in there as cool as enterTRAINment must have been, though there was the Great Train Store when those were still open.

Thanks Elliot, for the very educational back story.  I think I also saw the video on enterTRAINment on the same set of DVDs Arnold mentioned, though I probably originally bought them when they were VHS.

-Dave

Last edited by Dave45681

While on one of the few trips we made to the Mega Mall between 1992-1995 with my folks my father and I on a random wander of the food court we visited you being totally unaware of the layout. I made several return trips until you closed. How cool I had no idea you were the master mind behind it. It was really amazing and I recall really enjoying it. I remember when it closed being very disappointed; I was living in Clear Lake, IA at the time.

Please post some pictures of the layout I would love to see them. You know in a way you kept me in the hobby, albeit I was in n scale but let the hobby ride out since 1988 or so. I got away from trains for some time after 1988 and it was your layout and the TCMRRM that kept me thinking about it despite the distractions of antique and exotic cars my family is into. Moving to Colorado for a degree at an art school and the Denver Union Station club reignited my passion that was kept warm by experiencing places like you built.  It was a wonderful thing you did; it sure kept me on track! 

How very cool 

Last edited by Erik C Lindgren
ZWPOWER13 posted:

Thanks for the history Elliot!

BTW the largest mall in America, sqft wise  is the King Of Prussia Mall in PA

Mall of America is actually 3rd in the USA behind another mall in Miami..

The Mall of America is the largest retail and entertainment complex in the U.S., at 4.2 million square feet (which includes the central indoor amusement park added to its 2.5 million square feet of leasable space.) Apparently, the mall now has more than 500 stores. That’s 25 percent more than when it opened. King of Prussia has about 2.8 million square feet of leasable space. Aventura, near Miami, about 2.7 million.

 

Jim R. posted:
ZWPOWER13 posted:

Thanks for the history Elliot!

BTW the largest mall in America, sqft wise  is the King Of Prussia Mall in PA

Mall of America is actually 3rd in the USA behind another mall in Miami..

The Mall of America is the largest retail and entertainment complex in the U.S., at 4.2 million square feet (which includes the central indoor amusement park added to its 2.5 million square feet of leasable space.) Apparently, the mall now has more than 500 stores. That’s 25 percent more than when it opened. King of Prussia has about 2.8 million square feet of leasable space. Aventura, near Miami, about 2.7 million.

 

Is that because of the Camp Snoopy? On that note in all the visits to the Mega Mall I never got to the west or south side. Too big? 

It hasn’t been Knott’s Camp Snoopy for a very long time. Nickelodeon Universe is now the licensee/operator of the seven-acre park at the center of the mall.

The West Market area was once my favorite quadrant of the mall, with its rich forest green and maroon red color scheme and matching kiosk carts. Also long since remodeled.

It takes the average walker about an hour to cruise the mall, excluding the anchors. But if you stop to seriously shop each floor, you pretty much need to set aside eight hours. If you throughly shop the anchors, you pretty much have to be there all day. If you also have the kids in tow for Nickelodeon Universe, and wish to properly supervise them, make it a two-day visit.

Elliot’s layout was adjacent to Golf Mountain in the North Garden quadrant. Even if he had initiated product sales in addition to admission charges, the business would never have survived the evolution of the mall in recent years. But the mall, though obviously an investment property, really should have looked at enterTRAINment as an attraction similar to what Aventura Mall near Miami does relative to its train display. Early on, the diverse retail mix and entertainment-oriented businesses made the mall special, unlike anything else in the Twin Cities, Minnesota as a whole, or in the Upper Midwest. I feel the mall, while still unique, is less interesting, particularly to men, these days. Ironic, if you think about it, since the mall was built on the spot where Metropolitan Stadium (home of the Vikings and Twins until 1981) once stood.

Elliott, thanks for sharing. It's a very cool concept.  What a wild ride that must have been running the business.  Kudos to you for taking the risk.  Running a small business is much harder than most people think.  

I would also like to hear more about how you controlled the trains w c/mri. This was Before the dawn of command control and at the cusp of modern PCs.  You were really on the frontier of the hobby and technology in general. 

 

Mall Wars.

Most malls, regardless of size, mean (meant) far less to those outside the area than the locals seem to think. I actually ate in the KofP mall years ago, but only because I was in PA on business. The "Mall of America"? I have indeed heard of it, but just that. Minnesota is a long way from here, and I've never even been in the state.

 

Elliot,  you have amazing organization and building skills.  I have attempted to use some of your thoughts to organize or at least imagine organizing my modest basement layout. 

I had no idea that you also had the commitment to open a small business as complicated as a train layout in an incredibly brutal retail environment.  I agree with the others above that your landlord was myopic regarding its business strategy.  I work in Baltimore and the Mayor has actually chastised the landlords for adhering to higher than fair rent for struggling business which eventually go out of business leaving the buildings looking like Swiss cheese.  The landlords have been requested to do good work by offering a staggered rental which allows their empty storefronts to be vibrant, reduce crime and increase business for all, but there have been few takers.

In order to maintain the traffic pattern you need more than an anchor to draw traffic or the non anchor stores will default on their higher than anchor rent.  By not fairly accounting for the traffic pattern and adjusting for the actual potential income for the stores the landlord may personally do well but won't do good.  It is apparent with all the empty malls and strip stores with their vacancies.

In any event, though I know that you were not trying for this accolade,  it is evident that your creativity has been greatly appreciated by many on this site and by me in particular.   

 

I am one of the few on this forum who live in the Minneapolis area.  I was a boy when the mall opened and have no memory of this layout.  I must have visited it after you had already closed.  One of the problems I think is that when it first opened, I would guess that a big portion of visitors were locals.  And this area is just not big into model trains like on the east coast.  There are so few people in the hobby here.  Second, with so many other free attractions there in its heyday, you had a lot of competition.

Like the other poster have said, the mall today has little resemblance to its first years where there were so many unique stores that could be found nowhere else and they were all grandiose.  The sporting goods store had a basketball court, synthetic ice skating rink, etc.  They had a store I think called Bones or something with all sorts of scientific stuff.  One had a safari like theme.  Two that did nothing but sold hot sauces.  I am forgetting many others.

Today, a lot of that has been replaced by your typical clothing stores, but I've noticed in the past couple of years some more unique stores have opened up.  I believe it still is the number one attraction in the US (by what measure, I am not sure).

Thanks for sharing your story.  I could see how anyone could get caught up in the hype back then, especially in the days when retail was flourishing.  What a dream you had!

Jim R. posted:

NYC Z-Man, I am not sure where you have been all these years, but the Mall of America has been the largest mall and entertainment complex in the nation for a quarter of a century.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mall_of_America

 

 

I’ve been in Western NY where I grew up most of the time. The mall had a lot of publicity in this area when it first opened but that didn’t last to long. Admittedly, my visit to the area was very brief and mostly under darkness. What I did see in daylight looked dingy but could have been the dreary weather conditions. The mall scene in WNY has dwindled to a few malls with ever increasing vacancies. One had a Great Train Store which was short lived. The same mall now is riddled with kids who gang together which results in frequent violence. Not to mention vandalism and shop lifting. My vacation this year is through the upper Great Lakes region. Mall of America may just be a destination for us.

 I thought our band stayed in a upscale hotel across the street in 86-87 that had a glass covered walkway over to the mall? I remember thinking what a huge place it was. Trouble was, it was in the dead of winter. So the place wasn't real busy. I was glad the first time we used the walkway. The next time I was out in the street and the cold wind was something I still remember to this day.

 Anyways I must have the wrong mall because it says it didn't open until the 90's????

Was there another near Minneapolis?

TrainAmerica brings back good memories, Elliot. I was never there but must have watched the TM video a dozen or more times. You ventured to build something very neat in a public space - something many of us only dream of doing.

The 1990s were an exciting time for O-gauge.

We had "The great toy train store" in the King of Prussia Mall close to where I lived back then. The layouts were small by comparison, but it was a neat store with books and videos and gave me something to do while my wife looked at clothes.

Last edited by Paul Kallus

An interesting story and a good lesson in retail economics. You were a brave soul and gave it a good try.  Personally I don't get too much enjoyment out of watching  train layouts like that. Modest as it was (and will be), I enjoy my own more. Plus I build to suit me, no one else including kids. I dealt with a mall once involving an antique car display and it was not a positive experience.

Interesting story! I have been wondering about that for some time now and it's neat that you posted the story. I agree with the others about having the nerve (or whatever it takes) to take a risk like that. I am not sure I have what it takes for that, pretty scary! Also it's too bad it didn't work out, it sounded to me like you had a good plan and a good idea there. 

Another unbelievable story, Elliot - master of 'great-challenges-are-welcome' undertakings.

That you endeavored to make that display layout at the mall, in spite of all the potential obstacles, explains your current project - Piece of cake? (I know; not quite.) 

How would you compare the two projects, considering all the elements required to complete them?

Thank you for sharing!

Alex

Wow guys, I'm overwhelmed by all the responses, many quite lengthy. I cherish each one. Thank you, and you're welcome.

I actually made an attempt to tell this story back on August 12th 2012, the 20th anniversary of enterTRAINment's opening, but something went terribly wrong, and an argument ensued. I might have been able to manage it, but had to leave the house for a while, and when I returned, the topic was gone! After that it was a case of "sleeping dogs", until last week when I got that batch of questions. It feels good to get my story out.

After a cursory search, I was unable to locate the box of photos. The wife and I will give it a more serious effort in the near future. They're in the house somewhere, because nothing gets thrown away. Therein lies part of the problem.

With so many replies, I may not be able to address each one, but I will certainly answer all the questions. So here goes:

Did they make you pay for the remaining 8 years on the lease ?

No Jim, because enterTRAINment was a corporation, it simply ran out of funds. There was no money to pursue. They were just happy to have me out and get their space back. They ended up renting it to Spencer Gifts.

Knowing what you do now, do you think a different outcome would have been more favorable taking the first floor space?

That's the $64,000 question Ray. I've always believed that I would have survived had I taken that other space. The rent was the same, and the traffic was much greater there, perhaps double or more than third floor. I may not have hit the half million gross revenue mark, but even $350K would have paid the rent, and everything else. BTW, I had something like 110,000 paid visits in the 14 months I was open.

In the absence of some liquidated damage clause, the landlord will have a duty to mitigate any damages from a broken lease by endeavoring to find a successor tenant to occupy the space.

That is correct, you know your stuff. My dad was a lawyer, but he hated it so much he went into real estate. Even though he quit practicing, it was a nice "pet" to have.

Are you aware that there is another public venture model railroad with that same name?

Yes Paul, I believe they opened around the time I was closing. There was also a real full sized operation called the EnterTRAINment Line, which I believe was in Maryland. Not sure their status. I quit looking.

I can see how that would get you down, but am glad to see that your "Dream-Nightmare" layout is picking you up! 

When my ex wife and I built our current house, I could have had as much space as I wanted, but I opted for about as much space as I had at the mall. This time I'm building to please myself, and the rent is almost free. Property taxes, which are like $5,200 per year. Just about to wrap up my 18th year.

My number one favorite movie is Field of Dreams. You, like me, may relate to the Moonlight Graham character played by Burt Lancaster in that movie.  Moonlight Graham got to play only 1 inning in the Major Leagues and never got to bat. Burt Lancaster says, do you know what it's like to live your entire life knowing you have come this close (holding his thumb and index finger a fraction of an inch apart) to achieving your dream, and not achieving it? 

I love that movie, especially that scene when Frank Whaley steps over the line. Honestly, I can't imagine what my life would have looked like had I not done enterTRAINment. Not only was it an education for me, but it was a wonderful platform from which to promote the hobby.

Wasn’t there a large Hellgate type bridge on the layout?

There were a lot of bridges, but none specifically modeled after the Hellgate.

I seem to remember an CTT or OGR article featuring the layout. What became of the Mall?

The article appeared in both CTT and MR, but not OGR. The mall celebrated its 25th anniversary last August.

I’m coming to Minnesota this summer and will email you about a visit if you are okay with that.

That is very OK! There has always been a standing invitation for forum members to visit. Email is in my profile.

I still have the pamphlet I was given.

I'm pretty sure I still have case of those, as well as a bunch of other stuff tucked away in a closet.

The Mall of America has been the largest mall and entertainment complex in the nation for a quarter of a century.

Actually, they want to get bigger. They recently announced they want to build a new water park on a parcel just to the east. Not sure how they'll connect that with a parking ramp in the way. Also, there is a water park nearby, which went out of business a couple years ago, but was later purchased by the Great Wolf chain. 

The MALL should have realized that you like LEGOLAND  were attractions and reduced the nut accordingly, but since real estate investors have only one vision being $$$$ you were doomed from the start!!  SAD

That was always my position. It almost felt like they just wanted tenants to build out the spaces, and after that they didn't care.

I think I also saw the video on enterTRAINment on the same set of DVDs.

I heard years ago that Tom's videos were being played on RFD TV, enterTRAINment included, from time to time. I've never had access to RFD.

On that note in all the visits to the Mega Mall I never got to the west or south side. Too big?

 Size may have been a factor in my demise. Visitors usually started on the first floor, but fewer made it up to the third, unless they knew what they wanted to do. I tried advertising on TV, but the mall questioned why I was spending the money, since they felt they were "doing it for me" with their generic ads, pushing the mall in general. Then they claimed my business just wasn't popular enough, which I wasn't making it.

It hasn’t been Knott’s Camp Snoopy for a very long time. Nickelodeon Universe is now the licensee/operator of the seven-acre park at the center of the mall.

They just had their tenth anniversary last Saturday.

What a wild ride that must have been running the business.  Kudos to you for taking the risk. Running a small business is much harder than most people think.  

It was, and it was JD. First it was me vs the world, then it was me vs the mall. We all know I lost with the mall, but with the world, I feel I did better. Mistakes, yeah there were plenty. Everyone here should thank you for getting me to do this, as you were he one with all the original questions.

I would also like to hear more about how you controlled the trains with C/MRI. This was before the dawn of command control and at the cusp of modern PCs.

My electrical guy and I had really cool and grand plans for C/MRI, and spent a lot of time and money on it. There was one big problem, back then software was hard to come by. Standard software was rather slow, to the point where trains might not receive stop commands in time to avoid collisions. Custom software was much faster, but also more expensive. Because of that, it was never fully developed. So I was never really able to take full advantage of C/MRI. Now, JMRI is free, and much more powerful. Command control had been around for quite some time at that point, but not for 3 rail. The layout was glorified block control, where every block had its own digital throttle. In the end, I guess I was just ahead of the technology by a decade or two. I'm making up for that now!

Most malls, regardless of size, mean (meant) far less to those outside the area than the locals seem to think.

Not true with MOA, maybe quite the opposite even. It was built to be a travel destination, and has lived up to that billing. It is just five minutes from the airport, and people from all over the world flock to it. People from about a 500 mile radius drive to it. The locals actually tend to stay away, as there are other malls where they can get the same stuff.

Like the other poster have said, the mall today has little resemblance to its first years where there were so many unique stores that could be found nowhere else and they were all grandiose.

By that standard, I fit right in. By the end of the first five years or so almost all the unique stores were gone. I used to think that selling food out there was a sure thing. I even did coupon promotions with a number of places near me on the third floor. That third floor can kill anybody. Only one remains, and that's the cheese shop.

Wow, that's quite the story.  And it reminds me of an old adage: "How to make a small fortune with toy trains?  Start with a large fortune!" 

Too true! All the build out money went right down the toilet. I took everything that wasn't firmly nailed down. I paid a lot of money to have high current 3 phase electrical pulled all the way from a vault in the bowels of the mall to run all the lighting. Wouldn't need that today with LED's. Just a small example of where the money went.

Anyway, I must have the wrong mall because it says it didn't open until the 90's. Was there another near Minneapolis?

My guess from that description would be that you stayed in downtown Minneapolis, and wandered through the skyway system, probably after regular business hours which is why it seemed dead. Because of all the shops, to the untrained eye it could look like a mall, and it would be huge.

An interesting story and a good lesson in retail economics. You were a brave soul and gave it a good try.

One of the biggest risks that I took, was wanting to be there for opening day. The problem was there was nothing to base traffic patterns on, except the best guess of the leasing agent. The smart move would have been to wait a year or so. The problem with that was, I would have had to pay rent during construction, so it wouldn't have worked.

How would you compare the two projects, considering all the elements required to complete them?

Well Alex, the thinking behind the new layout is, what do I do as an encore to the mall?  I needed a project that was even more challenging. On the one hand, the outside pressures are gone, no mall to deal with. On the other, this layout is far more complex. It is triple deck with more than twice the amount of track, packed into a slightly smaller space. I still needed to bring in help on this one, but nothing like at enterTRAINment.

Finally

Erik, thanks for posting those videos. Brings back memories. I had no idea they were out there on the web. I can tell you that they were shot sometime prior to July 4th 1993, because the fireworks display wasn't above the exit door yet.

Last edited by Big_Boy_4005

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