Whats The Final Word On The Small Motors In K Line Steamers?

Rick, not all the Kline’s with the small motors are doomed to failure,.....even I still have one Kline Hudson all stock ( except I added 4 chuffs and fan smoke in time) but I keep that Hudson relegated to commuter duty with 3 cars,....you hit the nail on the head, light use, and light load and they’ll be fine ,.....but what I found and led me to the upgrade, is after 5-6 cars, they tend to run hot, and that makes the Kline Cruise go quirky, that’s my experience, now, there’s always gonna be that guy that drags the world with his Kline and swears it does fine, but that’s not the norm, these beautifully built locomotives suffer from anemic power,.......anybody that’s commented on my build threads that has one still stock all say the same thing, they run light loads and short spurts, and they report no issues,....now, you wanna pull 18 Heavyweights?...then you see me,...😉

Pat

Thanks Pat! How did I know you'd be chiming in?

Just so you know, I'm not doubting anything your saying, or questioning your fantastic upgrades. I was just curious what the range of failure is.

After being so disgusted with the gearbox on my Legacy K4, the K Line version catches my eye from time to time.

Of course the old Lionel TMCC K4 would probably pull down a tree, but that firebox.......because its so packed full of Pittman....

Rick, to add to your discussion, there is another less invasive and far less expensive “ fix” for Kline’s forward facing motors ....I’ve perfected the small 8000 series Pittman swap that utilizes all the stock Kline components. Again, far less invasive than the entire chassis swaps that I do......performance is enhanced above the stock 385, and longevity ( actual running time) is also increased, not to the caliber of the large rear mount 9000 series Pittman’s, but still, that’s an economical upgrade should the 385 poop the bed. Typically, the biggest issue I run into with these 385’s mounted in the Kline’s is the amount of thrust end play the motor develops over time, and too much shaft end play directly results in lost motion ( ie; the motor turns before the locomotive moves) of course, the biggest advantage of any Pittman equipped locomotive is the ability to actually service and repair the actual motor, not the case wit the 385, if it croaks, it’s a sealed unit, discard and replace ,......here’s some pics of a Kline Hudson fitted with a smaller 8000 series Pittman still forward facing,....

Pat

Thanks again Pat! Good stuff to know!

Yep!...go get a Kline and enjoy it!.....if it ever does develop issues, there’s a fix for every budget,...😉...

Pat

This might be  slightly off topic but is about K-Line motors.  I only recently became curious about K-Line.  So, I started buying early K-Line pieces including engines which wasn't a big challenge because there was only the Marx steamer, the S-2 and MP-15 diesels.

Was there any other reason other than cost that they would have used these really small truck mounted motors in the diesels up to and including the 'F' units and I believe the 'E' units.  The same apparently holds true as they brought on the nicer steamers.  They must have done stress tests on the engines and known of the limitations.

Any thoughts?

I might have to take up your offer on that someday, Pat.

I have a PRR Light Mike I got from a fellow forum member, and despite how well made it is, it doesn't seem quite as built for the heavy haul compared to a Lionel TMCC or even LEGACY counterpart.

@Mikado 4501 posted:

I might have to take up your offer on that someday, Pat.

I have a PRR Light Mike I got from a fellow forum member, and despite how well made it is, it doesn't seem quite as built for the heavy haul compared to a Lionel TMCC or even LEGACY counterpart.

Lionel USRA Mikes have the same motor and frame as the K-Line. Just different electronics. The Southern/Frisco Lionel Mikes had a big motor but when Lionel acquired K-Line they stuck with the small forward facing motor. If you want a big Pittman just get an MTH mike. Not only do the MTH mikes have more power they have much better detail as well. No contest.

Pete

I took two K-Line steamers, converted them to rear mount motors, converted the boiler belly to round, and insulated the whole mess for two rail.  I found them elegant until I parked them next to other scale models.  Then they looked kind of small.

K-Line did produce a few 2-rail Berkshires, but still with the strange motor mount. The museum had one - its worm gear failed before the motor failed.

A local machinist had a gear hobbing attachment, and was able to replace the axle gear.

I used to standardize on the larger 9000 Pittmans, and still have a dozen steamers powered with them, but I really like the performance of the smaller 8000 series.  Ball bearings, silver graphite, and rare earth magnets are Pittman options - necessary for model trains.  Opinion.  The ball bearings eliminate the end play problem.

You want to pull 18 heavy weight cars.  A real engine would have trouble pulling that.

@harmonyards posted:

Yep!...go get a Kline and enjoy it!.....if it ever does develop issues, there’s a fix for every budget,...😉...

Pat

With my light demands - 4 passenger cars, maybe 5; 10 - 12 car freights - the K-Lines do fine. I also do not run them for hours, or even an hour. Light usage guys like me will probably be happy.  I have run my Berkshire at a train show for 1+ hours without stop, 12-car freight. I checked the boiler and it was a bit warm, but not hot. The Pittman Lionel and MTH steamers never broke a sweat, however. Neither did my Williams brass steamers, though they don't have Pittman motors.

Like he said: enjoy those K-Lines. Just be gentle (now you can use all that light, low-friction MPC rolling stock!) That 8000 Pitman looks so good in there...

Pat, where do you get those 8000 Pittman motors?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pat, where do you get those 8000 Pittman motors?

Wherever I can John, I have a small stock pile of them for builds,....there’s some 12V on the bay now, just have to machine off the encoder housings and they’re good to go,...

Pat

I have a K-Line Berk that's never been run, as only now am I building my layout.  What are others' experiences as to practical train size?  I'd be happy with 10-12 freight cars.

My "final" word hasn't been written, but here's a tank train.  I wasn't foolish enough to try to pull it with something like the K-Line Berkshire!

@harmonyards posted:

Wherever I can John, I have a small stock pile of them for builds,....there’s some 12V on the bay now, just have to machine off the encoder housings and they’re good to go,...

I didn't see any at a reasonable price.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I didn't see any at a reasonable price.

I’ll send you the link off line buddy,...

* link sent buddy *

Pat

@KarlDL posted:

I have a K-Line Berk that's never been run, as only now am I building my layout.  What are others' experiences as to practical train size?  I'd be happy with 10-12 freight cars.

You’ll probably be fine on level track, with gentle as can be curves, .....and as long as the freight cars are light weight, and free rolling,.....it’s all about common sense,.....try it for a few minutes, and see if the boiler shell starts to get warm,....that’s the tell tale,...

Pat

Well, my new Kline engine arrived today, was supposed to get here tomorrow but I am not picky. It is the 3270-53435 J1 Hudson just like the one Pat did for Leaping Larry(upgraded I mean). And, when I am wide awake, I'll be emailing Pat on what he recommends to be done to make this pull the kitchen sink, lol.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

My "final" word hasn't been written, but here's a tank train.  I wasn't foolish enough to try to pull it with something like the K-Line Berkshire!

I thought I had a tank car fetish.     I see I'm not alone.          j

@JohnActon posted:

I thought I had a tank car fetish.     I see I'm not alone.          j

Those are just the small ones, I've yet to break out the large tank cars.  I think I have 18 of the Lionel Ethanol cars, a couple packs of the Vision Line and four of the matching cars.  I also have a bunch of the Atlas 33,000 gallon cars, etc.

I like tank cars, you never have to worry about creating cargo or the doors sliding open.