And, is there a variation of the links with brass weights specific to certain production years? Thank you!!
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1952 was the transition year to knuckle couplers.
ADCX Rob posted:1952 was the transition year to knuckle couplers.
Rob, thank you! Can anyone chime in about the brass weights on the hook coupelers
In 1952 Gilbert cataloged 2 sets with knuckle couplers, all other sets were link couplers. In 1953 about half of the cataloged sets were link and half knuckle. In 1954 all cataloged sets were knuckle couplers.
The brass coupler weights are 1948 production. 1949 through 1953 are black weights. 1946 is no weight, thin shank; 1947 is no weight, thick shank.
Interesting. I have very limited experience with Flyer knuckle couplers (metal versions before "Pikemaster") but I have the impression they are a simpler design that works better than Lionel O-gauge knuckle couplers.
The old "harpoon" couplers looked hideous but they seemed to work well enough. You didn't have to slam the cars together to make them couple.
You guys must not be Flyer people. They were never called "Harpoon" or hook couplers. They are Link couplers.
The only time you notice a link coupler is on the caboose. They are no more intrusive looking than the oversize knuckle couplers of Flyer or Lionel. I have been good at getting reliable operation out of link couplers and regularly run trains of 20 or more link coupler cars with no uncoupling problems. The trick is to make sure they move freely are properly aligned and make sure there is no flash in the hook area that the hook goes all the way down.
Were Curly Q couplers only used in the late thirties?
The curly Q's were an interim design only used in I believe 1938. Gilbert came out with the link couplers I believe in 1939 with the introduction of 3/16 scale trains and fitted the link couplers also to Chicago Flyer locos and rolling stock at that time.
Major posted:The curly Q's were an interim design only used in I believe 1938. Gilbert came out with the link couplers I believe in 1939 with the introduction of 3/16 scale trains and fitted the link couplers also to Chicago Flyer locos and rolling stock at that time.
I have just one prewar Flyer caboose with one original "Q" coupler. It connects well (manually) with postwar Lionel knuckle couplers. I'm curious why Flyer came out with the "Q" coupler and quickly abandoned it. How well did they work with others of their own kind?
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RadioRon posted:And, is there a variation of the hook couplers with "brass" weights specific to certain production years? Thank you!!
Ron,
From my knowledge of the American Flyer Line of the A. C. Gilbert Company the link couplers were changed starting in 1952 and finished in 1953 to Knuckle Couplers. There were (Thin Shanked Link Couplers 1946). Thickened Shanked Link Couplers 1947), (Brassed Weighted Link Couplers 1948), (Black Weighted Link Couplers 1949), (Black Weighted Link Couplers with Spring assists 1950 & 1951) and Link couplers on the low end Flyer sets and knuckle couplers on the higher end sets 1952. in 1953 all sets were with Knuckle Couplers and separate sail and Uncatalogued sets cleared the Link Couplers out the remains of inventory.
I hope this is the answer to your Question.
Don
It was not easy making the change. Marshall Frisbie the ACG Chief Engineer told me "I wen through coupler hell" when asked him about it. They had to be sure not to infringe on Lionel's patents and keep within budget. They decided on a whole new approach
Donald Payer posted:RadioRon posted:And, is there a variation of the hook couplers with "brass" weights specific to certain production years? Thank you!!
Ron,
From my knowledge of the American Flyer Line of the A. C. Gilbert Company the link couplers were changed starting in 1952 and finished in 1953 to Knuckle Couplers. There were (Thin Shanked Link Couplers 1946). Thickened Shanked Link Couplers 1947), (Brassed Weighted Link Couplers 1948), (Black Weighted Link Couplers 1949), (Black Weighted Link Couplers with Spring assists 1950 & 1951) and Link couplers on the low end Flyer sets and knuckle couplers on the higher end sets 1952. in 1953 all sets were with Knuckle Couplers and separate sail and Uncatalogued sets cleared the Link Couplers out the remains of inventory.
I hope this is the answer to your Question.
Don
Did the coupler changeover dates co-incide with the design changes in the locomotives? I'd like to know the dates AF changed from die-cast boilers and tender bodies to plastic, if possible.
A minor correction to a post above. Gilbert made knuckle couplers exclusively beginning in 1954. In 1953 about half the cataloged sets were knuckle couplers but they were the expensive sets. The majority of 1953 production and sales were still link couplers because those were the cheaper high volume sellers.
The only Gilbert engine produced with both a metal and a plastic shell was the Atlantic. All others were either always die cast or always plastic. Tenders are more complicated with overlap in the same year. I recommend you look at the americanflyerexpress.com website. It lists all the variations by year. One word of caution. Most of the pictures are not accurate. Many are just a duplicate of a different year or a photoshop of the engine numbers.
In 1954 my AF Comet set came with knuckle couplers. Alco PA and three satin silver passenger cars.
AmFlyer posted:A minor correction to a post above. Gilbert made knuckle couplers exclusively beginning in 1954. In 1953 about half the cataloged sets were knuckle couplers but they were the expensive sets. The majority of 1953 production and sales were still link couplers because those were the cheaper high volume sellers.
The only Gilbert engine produced with both a metal and a plastic shell was the Atlantic. All others were either always die cast or always plastic. Tenders are more complicated with overlap in the same year. I recommend you look at the americanflyerexpress.com website. It lists all the variations by year. One word of caution. Most of the pictures are not accurate. Many are just a duplicate of a different year or a photoshop of the engine numbers.
Not quite true. The B&O streamlined Pacific (Royal Blue/Circus/Silver Bullet) was manufactured first with a die cast boiler as the Royal Blue and Circus engines between 1948 and I think 1950, and then with injection-molded plastic boilers as the Silver Bullet in 1953 and 1954. This engine was also manufactured before the war, as a 3/16th scale O gauge B&O Royal Blue.
Donald Payer posted:Link couplers were changed starting in 1952 & finished in 1953 to knuckles. There were thin shank links in 1946, thick shank links in 1947, brass weight links in 1948, black-weight links in 1949, black weight links with spring assists 1950 & 1951. In 1952, there were links on low-end Flyer sets & knuckles on high-end sets. By 1953, all sets had knuckles. Separate sale & uncatalogued sets cleared link couplers out the inventory. I hope this answers your question. Don
Thank you, Don!
A few corrections; I've only witnessed spring assist link couplers on the aluminum bodied passenger cars, probably because of their greater weight. The Royal Blue boiler, when updated to the plastic Silver Bullet also had the skyline casing extended forward into the pointed boiler front so that the smokestack would line up with the SIB smoke unit. Oh, and the reverse unit lever slot was eliminated (of course!).
There were four versions of the streamlined boiler shell, first was with wire handrails and a cast on B&O on the nose, then no B&O, then cast on handrails, then the SB plastic version. This is from memory, think I have the progression correct.
I believe the 290 boiler shell was also transitioned to plastic, but not with the 290 number.
The 300 series boiler shells underwent many changes, somewhere in my files I took pictures of them side-by-side. As I recall; multiple castings version with detailed side rods, then extended boiler shell and larger smoke stack to accommodate the SIB smoke unit, then the one piece cast shell (and simplified side rods/piston crosshead), and finally the plastic shell (and later, molded on whistle (and bell?). I think the 300 series was the most modified engine style ACG made. Being used in the introduction sets, probably manufacturing costs were more critical for this engine.
All the detail changes David lists are correct based on observed production. The 300 series and its 5 digit successors were likely the most modified Gilbert engine.
The 290 through 296 series New Haven style Pacifics along with the 21099 and the very few 21095's are all die cast engines. A plastic version has not been observed. Only the tender changed from sheet metal to plastic.
Ah, apparently I believed in a False Plastic boiler! 
Thanks for the clarification Tom!
Spring assisted link couplers are also seen on early 500-600 series plastic streamlined passenger cars. The 500 series cars are hard to find, but the 600 series cars are standard in the 5205W Silver Streak set from 1952. Also, the 405 locomotive in the Silver Streak set typically has the spring assist couplers.
Wow! So this is where all you guys are.
Hi everybody. Hi Duck!
Chris,
QUACK! Back at cha!
Lots of stuff talked about here; I can get on every once in a while.
David D (Duck, or as Steve Blackburn calls me, "Duckling")
Only two knuckle coupler sets were cataloged in 1952. Link Coupler lower priced sets and cars were still shown in the 1953 catalog. All catalog sets in 1954 had knuckle couplers, however I have also read some where that there were uncatalogued link coupler sets sold in 1954. So the transition from link to knuckle took 3 years.
All my Flyer has link couplers. Yes, I am a old fart.
Uncatalogued sets such as the 8SP, 9SP, 10SP, 40, 60 & 62 were sold in 1954. The 1954 Catalog also listed link coupler cars for separate sale.
Nostalgia!! OK, so who here remembers the AF half hour S scale layout TV shows which today would be called infomercials?
I do not remember them, before my time. There were two different series. In 1948 and 1949 Gilbert made 15 minute commercials called Roar of the Rails. I have a DVD with seven of the 1949 shows. Gilbert then made The Boys Railroad Club, 1950 I think. The run time varied but they were 12 minutes, give or take. These are on YouTube for our viewing pleasure.
I have enjoyed this topic. For me it has been a bit of a walk down memory lane. When Paul mentioned the Comet set, I was right there with him.
My Dad started purchasing AF trains in the late 1940s right after I was born, but he did not actually give them to me until he thought I was old enough to appreciate and properly care for them. These consisted of an early postwar 300AC Atlantic starter set, a 322AC Hudson freight set, and the green 600 series Pullman passenger cars and two red B&O boxcars he purchased separately. These all had link couplers. His next and final purchase was the Comet Alco PA set which only came with knuckle couplers.
Since all our layouts in those days were the temporary “Carpet Centrals,” we had about equal success, or lack thereof, with both types of AF couplers. I recall the Comet set staying together pretty well once we got it all connected, while the link cars coupled easily, but tended to jump apart on the uneven terrain.
I didn’t start purchasing trains on my own until I “took possession” of those first trains. I discovered Blum’s Hobby House in Cleveland in an ad in my first ever copy of Railroad Model Craftsman. I would save my allowance and paper route money until I could buy something I coveted, could afford...and came with link couplers.
Not yet concerned with collectibility, I didn’t care much about roadnames or whether the cars were 600 series or 900 series. I was just glad that nearly every kind of car I wanted to order from Blum’s seemed to be available in a link or knuckle coupler version.
Then it happened. Blum’s advertised an AF link to knuckle coupler conversion kit. I could only afford to order a few kits at a time, so I decided to add a knuckle coupler to just one end of one car so I could intermix the two types. In my infinite kid wisdom, I chose a caboose, which explains why my now possible Alco PA diesel freight train had a hack at both ends or in the middle of it’s string of cars. Not too cool.
As soon as I could, I converted all my link engines and cars to knuckle couplers (Oh...the horror!). But that opened up a whole new world of AF trains I could add to my small collection. Of course, that is also just about the time when AF went under.
After I returned to my trains in the ‘70s, I discovered the world of “used” toy trains. I have always considered myself an operator, not a collector, so everything I acquired was intended to be operated. For the first 30 years or so, I converted nearly every link coupler car to knuckle. It’s only been the last couple of decades that I have found myself wanting to keep the “old fashioned” link couplers on AF trains that are otherwise in good shape.
Besides, the sheet metal trucks don’t fall apart the way the sintered iron tend to. But that’s for another topic.
Cheers!
Alan
Nice post Alan, I enjoyed reading it. I run a lot of link coupler cars on my layout. I use the knuckle couplers for the passenger trains and block freights like coal drags that are never uncoupled except at the engine.
As you said, less than perfect track work and link couplers do not play well together. Their good points are link coupler cars will couple on any curve and at even the slowest mating speed I can get on step one of the Legacy system. I use these link coupler cars for freight switching. I am very fortunate to have track that was professionally laid on the layout. It is perfect. I run 15 car freights with all link couplers up and down grades, around the curves and through the turnouts. After the couplers are correctly adjusted there is never any spurious uncoupling. I made some transition cars to connect the modern Legacy engines to the link coupler cars.
Does anyone here know which vendors supply the helper spring for the American Flyer link coupler?
I bought a few at York, but they were rather pricey and the vendor gave me inaccurate information on how to install them. He told me that the coupler had to be removed to install them, but i figured out how to install them without removing the coupler.
Not sure why people give inaccurate information if they really do not know. 
I didn't even know they were available; they were used on so few pieces. And yes, you usually can figure out how to put such springs on without taking pieces apart, like the coil spring for the front truck on the steam engines. The seller probably didn't realize that!
Hello guys - I have drop-link couplers on all of my Buco (Swiss) carriages, freight cars and loco's, and I also have had to replace some of them with "knuckle" couplers to run them behind my American loco's (Lionel, MTH, & Williams).
Can someone please post some photos of these "spring loaded" link couplers, or the "helper spring" spare part to convert them, as I have never seen them here in Australia, and I am interested in possibly doing some upgrades.
Thank you.......Peter on the sunny Gold Coast in Queensland, Australia.
Thanks Brendan for the link. Totally different to what I was imagining.
The coupling on my Buco trains is the old style "drop-link" affair, with a "loop" fitting over a "hook" - nothing automatic about this - needs "THE HAND OF GOD" to couple and uncouple carriages and freight cars.
I will persevere with what I have 😒
Regards Peter 😎
I know this might be considered sacrilege but I modify my link couplers ever so slightly so that they never uncouple. The link coupler has straight edge that engages the bar on the truck it couples to. I trim this straight edge on a slight angle from the bottom of the coupler so that it no longer pops off the coupler bar. If you look at the couplers you would not notice the change but the results are dramatic. I can run 20+ link coupler cars for hours through switches etc., with no uncoupling. I also ensure that the couplers are set to the correct height and that the tip of the coupler is pointed slightly to the left ( when looking down on the car end from above) This keeps the couplers right next to each when couple and keeps them from lifting off the coupler bar when traversing a curve.
Tom,
Do you have any idea of where I could get a copy of the "roar of nte Rails" dvd's? I used to have a VHS copy.
Herb Wasserman
Herb, I bought mine many years ago from a vendor at the DuPage show. When I get back home tomorrow I will look at the packaging and post the numbers so a search can be done.
it's hard for most people to believe plastic hasn't been around forever. 1953/54 were the first uses of plastic in the commercial products industry. Marx plastic knuckle couplers also made their debut in 1953.
Mark, that looks like the Boys RR Club. I think Herb is looking for the Roar of the Rails.
