This would be for a passenger car set.
Is that written in stone?
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When a manufacturer such as Lionel or MTH, defines a minimum radius (say O-72 or O-54) they are guaranteeing that the engine will run on that size curve or larger without problems. I have found that many will run on smaller curves also. How small depends on the engine. Some like my Pennsy S-1, which is rated for O-72, must be run on O-72 or larger. My P-5a is also rated for O-72 but it also runs on slightly smaller curves. The only way I know to find out what will run where, is to try it or stick to the manufacturer's recommendation. What engine are you interested in? Maybe someone on the forum who has it can help.
Not look right,yes, but also consider that 8 driver wheel steam locos may encounter more friction between the first and last wheel and bind or slow down.
Also, six wheel diesel trucks may have issues
If your an Engineer like me - Yes.
It mean if you buy it and run it on less than O-54 you can't come on here and complain about it not running on O-42 later
Pat is correct. It's the recommended minimum. Anything else is a crap shoot.
Sometimes it will handle curves fine but have issues with switches and the switch housing. The engine may run but a tender with it's wheel set will not navigate a tighter curve.
My apologies, forgot to mention, this would be for a passenger car set:
6-15521.
To echo everyone else's reply, I have run my Lionel Genset (O42 Min/O54 Recommended) on O36 curves to varied degree of success.
The engine would traverse the curves by itself just fine, however certain cars would not remain coupled when going around the O36 bend.
Originally Posted by chipset:
I notice the cars are 18". and I have Williams Cars that are 18" which handle the O-42 curves fine.
Obviously, the length is not the whole story...what is Williams doing to make it work?
Also, I am using MTH RealTrax.
Likely coupler bar length and if there's any steps (or lack-thereof) on the sides to impede their progress through tighter radii.
Just once I wanted to run my GG1 under the tree with less of a radius then recommended. Ran fine, just that my traction tires peeled off.
Originally Posted by josef:
Just once I wanted to run my GG1 under the tree with less of a radius then recommended. Ran fine, just that my traction tires peeled off.
The locomotive meets the min curve.
My concern is the passenger cars.
I would doubt any manufacturer would rate a minimum curve for an engine or car due to how it appears in that curve. If that was a criteria then many of the large engines we have now would be rated O-300. The criteria is will the wheels bind or derail in that curve and to a lesser extent will the item clear the manufactures on line of switches due to their housings.
Originally Posted by chipset:
My apologies, forgot to mention, this would be for a passenger car set:
6-15521.
Chip: It's a good bet that these cars will negotiate O-42 curves. There may be a bit of overhang that may not be acceptable to some operators. I also believe that if you add more cars than what comes in the set, you may be courting some string-lining around the smaller diameter curve. This is probably why the passenger cars are rated for O-54. In a lot of cases, like the Blue Comet set, the loco is rated for O-42 and the passenger cars are rated for O-54. It doesn't seem logical, but this is how Lionel builds them. I have a couple of sets like this, and plan to run them of O-54, just to avoid any possible derailments. Bob S.
The cars may uncouple at a smaller radius. Been there...
No, it is written on paper. Seriously, usually it is pretty close to being right. That set might run on O-48 but probably not. It also depends on what you mean by "runs on" - many trains and locos rated O-54 might run on O-48 track but will act up going through O-48 switches, but not O-54 or O-60 switches. About half the time, it is running through a switch that sets the limit.
Originally Posted by Bob Severin:
Originally Posted by chipset:
My apologies, forgot to mention, this would be for a passenger car set:
6-15521.
Chip: It's a good bet that these cars will negotiate O-42 curves. There may be a bit of overhang that may not be acceptable to some operators. I also believe that if you add more cars than what comes in the set, you may be courting some string-lining around the smaller diameter curve. This is probably why the passenger cars are rated for O-54. In a lot of cases, like the Blue Comet set, the loco is rated for O-42 and the passenger cars are rated for O-54. It doesn't seem logical, but this is how Lionel builds them. I have a couple of sets like this, and plan to run them of O-54, just to avoid any possible derailments. Bob S.
Thanks Bob, I am going to check my other 18" passenger cars, as I know some have worked on O-42 with no issues.
However, I think this just may be the motivation for me to add a 3rd level I have been planning using O-72 curves.
Chipset,
I have found down thru the years the only true way to see what the rolling stock will actually run on, is to actually test each individual piece your self. I have a big Williams UP City of San Fran Passenger Train that only runs on 054 and above, unless I place a shorter MTH passenger car between each of the big Williams yellow passenger cars.
The old Williams UP is rated for 054 and really means it.
PCRR/Dave
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Originally Posted by Pine Creek Railroad:
Chipset,
I have found down thru the years the only true way to see what the rolling stock will actually run on, is to actually test each individual piece your self. I have a big Williams UP City of San Tran Passenger Train that only runs on 048 and above, unless I place a shorter MTH passenger car between each of the big Williams yellow passenger cars.
The old Williams UP is rated for 048 and really means it.
PCRR/Dave
That makes me feel better as I can throw a 15" car between the 18" cars if need be.
From looking at pictures of the cars on-line, it appears the limiting factors are the diaphrams, and the end steps blocking the coupler swing.
Good GREIF
I believe the set you are looking at is the same size as in the scale PE cars. Recently when TMB&V's were here, they wanted to include the scale PE train in the Christmas in the City portion of our layout. The curves are 0-42. The whole set did run, including the scale 1225 Berkshire, BUT I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS FOR REGULAR SERVICE.
Chipset,
In reality that also depends on the engineering of the trucks and the clearance they have, in the case of the Williams UP the long passenger cars just made the 048 swing
with alternating the rolling stock size on the tracks. The big double Diesel just made the 048's also. Chips I made a mistake in the 1st post the old UP is a 054 train not an 048, but can be used on 048 with alternating the rolling stock. The Passenger cars are
very long with big trucks.
PCRR/Dave
Originally Posted by Passenger Train Collector:
I believe the set you are looking at is the same size as in the scale PE cars. Recently when TMB&V's were here, they wanted to include the scale PE train in the Christmas in the City portion of our layout. The curves are 0-42. The whole set did run, including the scale 1225 Berkshire, BUT I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS FOR REGULAR SERVICE.
I will probably pull them with my Lionel S-1 Electric, until I buy a semi scale Hudson.
I bought the whole set from our very own Eliot by the way.
I would have waited and searched for a set of "scale" K line 15" cars, they are the correct width and height just a few inches shorter. Great detail with passengers, fairly close coupled, and no lousy thumbtacks. I have a set of these waiting for the next legacy hudson.....if and when........
I have been lucky with my Daylight Cab Forward which is rated at 072 minimum curves. I have been running it on my 054 curves and 054 gargrave switches without issue.
-Pete
K-Line did make some 18" heavyweight cars that had swinging steps that would run on 031 curves. These would work for sure, if you could find a set.
Well, if you already bought it, why don't you take them out of the box, put them on the track behind your S1, and see how it goes? That would be my next step. Ramming Speed!
Originally Posted by BFI66:
I have been lucky with my Daylight Cab Forward which is rated at 072 minimum curves. I have been running it on my 054 curves and 054 gargrave switches without issue.
-Pete
My experience with my Reading T1 has been somewhat similar to yours, but with some qualification. The T1 will go through my single 036 curve (if you don't take it too fast), but will instantly derail on an 036 S-curve. And I suspect that running one of these consistently on 036 curves would put undue wear on the driver flanges over time. 048 is my minimum radius elsewhere.
Yeah, I realize that Chipset was asking about passenger cars.
