When Would 1953 Lionel Catalog Items Be Available??

The catalogs would have come out around October of the previous year so 1952 for the 1953 catalog. Most of the items would have been on the dealers shelves for that Christmas 1952. Far cry from today.

Pete

Carl, the 2046 was made in 1950/51 using a modified Berkshire boiler. It was again made in 1953. They made the Hudson in 1952 but renumbered it 2056 because of the lack of Magnetration. Lionel also produced the Berkshire in 1952 without Magnetraction and renumbered it 726 rr for rerun. The three and four window versions most likely didn't make the change at the beginning of the production year. Lionel would have used the three window version tell they ran out of shells, then made the switch. There was not a great deal of time between catalogs and sales of product like there is today. Even though the last run of the 2046 was in 1953, many stores would still have a stock of these engines for some time after that date. I remember some hobby shops in the 50s with large collection of new/older products of the shelves. If they didn't sell them at Christmas it could take a long time to move them. Hope this helps a little. Don

When Would 1953 Lionel Catalog Items Be Available??

Any day now. 

When Would 1953 Lionel Catalog Items Be Available??

For me, never.  I got my first train set in 1951, and it was 1957 before my family could afford another locomotive (a #41 US Army switcher).

Gotta love that '53 catalog, though.  How I loved looking through it!

SantaFeJim posted:

When Would 1953 Lionel Catalog Items Be Available??

 

Any day now. 

There on the water.

When Would 1953 Lionel Catalog Items Be Available??

Just in time for this holiday season 

(You guys are tough)

Carl, in the wonderful 1940's and 50's most of the Lionel catalogs came out around October the year before. The Lionel factory went all out every year in time for Christmas. Staff was hired and production was in full swing. Once in awhile the catalog would not match what Lionel produced as in the back page of the 1950 catalog showing the #213 lift bridge. There were problems with the bridge and it was never produced tell 2002. Don

Galy posted:

SantaFeJim posted:

When Would 1953 Lionel Catalog Items Be Available??

 

Any day now. 

There on the water.

Richie C. posted:

When Would 1953 Lionel Catalog Items Be Available??

Just in time for this holiday season 

(You guys are tough)

 

Har.

Norton posted:

The catalogs would have come out around October of the previous year so 1952 for the 1953 catalog. Most of the items would have been on the dealers shelves for that Christmas 1952. Far cry from today.

Pete

scale rail posted:

Carl, in the wonderful 1940's and 50's most of the Lionel catalogs came out around October the year before. The Lionel factory went all out every year in time for Christmas. Staff was hired and production was in full swing. Once in awhile the catalog would not match what Lionel produced as in the back page of the 1950 catalog showing the #213 lift bridge. There were problems with the bridge and it was never produced tell 2002. Don

In a word, no. It wasn't like the automobile industry.

What we know as the consumer catalog -- the full-color edition showing the entire train line -- didn't arrive at dealers until the early fall of the year that was on the cover. So the 1953 consumer catalog didn't arrive until about October of 1953.

Dealers worked off of advance catalogs, which were released in the early part of the year to support the hobby/toy trade show season. Toy Fair in New York City was the big one, but there were others. Factory production started with orders generated by the advance catalogs, so that by the time the consumer catalogs started arriving six to eight months later, some of those products were already available.

And lest this turn into yet another thread bashing current manufacturing, note that the postwar Lionel Corp. also had problems getting key new items out the door for that Christmas season. While I'm unaware of any stashes of actual shipment/availability schedules from the 1940's and '50s, engineering, production and printing records that have survived could lead one to believe that things like the 2332 GG-1 (1947), 2333 F-3's (1948), 622/6220 NW-2's (1949) and 773 Hudson (1950) -- among others -- missed their debut Christmas season, or at best, were only available in extremely limited quantities.

TRW

Seems I remember the catalogs appearing in the early fall showing items available that holiday season so the 1953 catalog items would have been on sale during the 1953 Christmas season.  The dealer advance catalogs came out in time for the Toy Fair Trade show in the spring when orders would have been taken for that years offerings.  Lionel did not have the problems getting product to market then that they do now.  The ill fated move to Mexico was fraught with production problems and shipping delays but the current situation with production in China and 1 to 2 year delays before some items reach market would have been considered intolerable back then. 

Happy Holidays and Smooth Running Trains

I would look over those old Lionel catalogs until the pictures faded away but can't recall exactly what time of year the new ones were released.  It was magic because of the tremendous artwork that made those trains look so real.

By the way, is there a site where we could view those old catalogs online?

It is my understanding that items ordered at the toy fair in the spring were to be shipped by the end of October. Track, transformers, and accessories were made in the off seasons, but the sets were made to order with manufacturing starting when the toy fair orders came in in April and were finished and shipped end of October. I believe Lionel got bank loans to cover the cost of manufacturing based on their orders. These were paid off at the end of the year after they were paid for what they had shipped. 

PaperTRW posted:

Norton posted:

The catalogs would have come out around October of the previous year so 1952 for the 1953 catalog. Most of the items would have been on the dealers shelves for that Christmas 1952. Far cry from today.

Pete

scale rail posted:

Carl, in the wonderful 1940's and 50's most of the Lionel catalogs came out around October the year before. The Lionel factory went all out every year in time for Christmas. Staff was hired and production was in full swing. Once in awhile the catalog would not match what Lionel produced as in the back page of the 1950 catalog showing the #213 lift bridge. There were problems with the bridge and it was never produced tell 2002. Don

In a word, no. It wasn't like the automobile industry.

What we know as the consumer catalog -- the full-color edition showing the entire train line -- didn't arrive at dealers until the early fall of the year that was on the cover. So the 1953 consumer catalog didn't arrive until about October of 1953.

Dealers worked off of advance catalogs, which were released in the early part of the year to support the hobby/toy trade show season. Toy Fair in New York City was the big one, but there were others. Factory production started with orders generated by the advance catalogs, so that by the time the consumer catalogs started arriving six to eight months later, some of those products were already available.

And lest this turn into yet another thread bashing current manufacturing, note that the postwar Lionel Corp. also had problems getting key new items out the door for that Christmas season. While I'm unaware of any stashes of actual shipment/availability schedules from the 1940's and '50s, engineering, production and printing records that have survived could lead one to believe that things like the 2332 GG-1 (1947), 2333 F-3's (1948), 622/6220 NW-2's (1949) and 773 Hudson (1950) -- among others -- missed their debut Christmas season, or at best, were only available in extremely limited quantities.

TRW

All I know is I received my 2035 set in the Christmas of 1949. It was first cataloged in the 1950 catalog. It was set 1469WS. Zero doubt in my mind what year I received it. Take a look at the 1950 catalog.

Maybe not all items were available that Christmas but the catalog defintely preceded the year it was dated.

Pete

I got my first Lionel train set on Christmas 1938, a 224E set that is in the 1939 catalog.

I would agree with Papertrw, and the date being 1953.  The three window version had Silver Rubber Stamping, (1951-52).  The 1953 was White HEAT Stamping.  (Ref. Paul V. Ambrose, Greenberg Guide, Vol. I)

Pete, only the 622 diesel switcher in 1949 had unannounced magne-traction. The 2035 with magne-traction and the sintered iron drivers to support the magnetic flux wouldn't be to 1950. Sure it wasn't a 2025?

A consumers catalog issued in the fall of any year is for that years Christmas.

Thanks for everyone’s input (and some pretty funny replies as well). So it seems like there is not 100% consensus that the 1953 catalog would have come out in October 1952– but it appears that is what the majority of responses are saying or implying.

thanks again.

Carl J

eddie g posted:

I got my first Lionel train set on Christmas 1938, a 224E set that is in the 1939 catalog.

Eddie, I thought you got your first set in 1929! 

Don

Norton posted:

All I know is I received my 2035 set in the Christmas of 1949. It was first cataloged in the 1950 catalog. It was set 1469WS. Zero doubt in my mind what year I received it. Take a look at the 1950 catalog.

Maybe not all items were available that Christmas but the catalog defintely preceded the year it was dated.

Pete

Pete,

It's hard to argue with memories, so instead I'll state some facts.

Lionel's CPI (Component Parts Index, or in today's terms, Bill of Materials) for the 2035 was initially released on February 6, 1950, by C. Montagna. (He's still with us!)

The initial printing of the instruction sheet for the 2035 is also dated February 1950.

A lot of things point to the 2035 as being one of the first items out the door with Magne-Traction in 1950, but it's really not possible that an item could have been produced and shipped to a retailer even before the factory engineering paperwork was finalized and released.

I don't have anything easily accessible for 1953, but let me share with you photos from a recent acquisition.

The first photos are from the mailing envelope for Lionel's annual Promotional Package from 1956. The postmark on the envelope is October 2, 1956.

This photo is the cover of the 1956 Promotional Booklet contained therein. Note that it talks about "Christmas 1956."

And these photos are from an inside page listing of the contents of the kit, including the "new 1956 catalog." This was likely the first time the retailer laid eyes on that year's consumer catalog, assuming the bulk shipment hadn't arrived first.

Needless to say, I'm standing by my earlier comments that the consumer catalog came out in the fall of the year on the cover for most, if not all of the "golden years" of postwar production.

TRW

Hi TRW-

Wow, your info and pictures with the postmark are pretty conclusive in that the 1956 Lionel Consumer Catalog came out in October 1956 (not October 1955). Thanks for your help!! It will help my friend jog some further memories of when he got his set with the 2046 engine shown in the 1953 Catalog.

Thanks so much!!

Carl J

I was gonna comment about that undelivered 1953 BTO order, but then decided they have all been delivered by now, since posters seem to have theirs. But, hey!, that beats a cancellation!

There are lots of nice comments regarding time if delivery of the 1953 Lionel catalog, I just wanted to say, it was very colorful, full of fond memories, and really American Made fun toys. I was 8 when it came out and always wanted the NYC and Sante Fe F Unit and trains......Wow....Now I am 74 years young and still Love the Hobby as much or more today.  Great Thread, Happy Railroading.

They were made in AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!