(SOLVED, BUT KINDA STRANGE) where did these set screws come from????

How are the drive wheels held on ?  Just fishing here,

One of the repair shops did suggest that.  I checked all 8 wheels and unless I got completely UNlucky by having all 8 holes facing upwards, where I couldn't see, then I don't see them holding the wheels to the axles.  Could I have gotten unlucky?

thanks for checking in Clem K

- walt

do you use dual banana plugs?

Fly-Wheel?

Grease cellar caps?

Walt, do they have slots or hex head ends?

BobbyD posted:

Walt, do they have slots or hex head ends?

Slots on the end of the set screws.  thanks for asking - can't wait to find out why!!!

- walt

Engineer-Joe posted:

do you use dual banana plugs?

Yes, but where I found these set screws isn't anywhere near the TIU where I use the banana plugs.  Good suggestion - I'll double check but I would list the odds at something like 1% tops, based on where I found the screws.

thanks for the suggestion

- walt

Gregg posted:

Fly-Wheel?

HMMM, obviously the PS3 DCS engine has a can motor with a flywheel but since I found TWO of the screws, is that still a candidate?

thanks for asking and possibly offering an answer to my question here

- walt

lehighline posted:

Grease cellar caps?

I don't know what those are.  I don't own any modern Lionel engines that I've read about where the inner gears can be lubed from an external "hole", so if that's what you mean, no, these engines don't have them.

thanks for asking - if you mean something else would you mind explaining to me so I could look at it?

thanks - walt

Maybe from an accessory? 

In my opinion, they didn't come from your trains. Set screws are generally not used, only a handful of instances. And for 2 or more of them to back out of something is unlikely.  I would look for another source.

Walt, if you really want to learn whence they came, throw them out.  The day after the trash is picked up, you'll find the empty holes.

Just kidding of course, based on experience.

Look like the coupler screws from a tinplate car.

Possibly a 200 series or 400 series car.

Engineer-Joe posted:

do you use dual banana plugs?

I couldn't wait to get my hands on a computer today to THANK Engineer-Joe!!!!!!!!   I dug out my banana plugs and indeed I found 2 empty 'holes' that the set screws somehow fell out of.

What is unexplainable to me is how the screws landed up where they did on the layout.  I found one at least 12' away from where the plugs where used (in my TIU) and the other about 6' away from the TIU.    Looking at an image of the 2017 Christmas layout:

One screw was found under the bridge and the other was found where you see the gas station in the lower left corner.  The TIU is under the MRC 270 trannie.

I'm so glad that you guys are always so helpful - and knowledgeable!!!!  

Joe - I don't know what made you think of the banana plugs but I sure want to thank you for thinking of that idea - me, personally, I would have NEVER thought of that - at least not until I start setting up the 2018 layout.  Yesterday my plan was, as soon as I left the library (where I use their computers), to take the shell off the Blue Comet a 2nd time and I was determined I was going to find where they go.  Thanks to you I didn't have to do that!

Nothing like peace of mind to boot

Again, to all, thanks for the ideas

- walt

Been following along with your quest Walt. Glad the mystery has been solved. Strange how they wound up where they did.
Kudos to Engineer Joe!

Lost track of your build thread before Christmas. Nice to see the finished product. Looking forward to next year.

Bob

If you have a cat that may explain the roaming set screws.

Like stones in the desert, it was all of the wind gusts from running those trains

Hey Walt. Didn't you have ghosts on your layout? Maybe they moved the set screws. 

Mark Diff posted:

Hey Walt. Didn't you have ghosts on your layout? Maybe they moved the set screws. 

You have a GREAT memory Mark.  Here are memories of that!

- walt

In this one, somehow a candy bar "jumped" out on own its own - look  by the blue gon to the right of it.

A closeup

In this one a wire came off of the lockon after 8 weeks of running perfectly.  For perspective, see that lockon to the right, the 3rd track in, with the red light, the lockon is just below it - see the closeup next.

A closeup

On this one a wire, after, again, 8 weeks, mysteriously came loose from the TIU, which is below the ZW.

Wow, I am grateful for the thanks!

I have dropped many of those screws backstage at concerts. I know what they look like.

walt rapp posted:

Mark Diff posted:

Hey Walt. Didn't you have ghosts on your layout? Maybe they moved the set screws. 

You have a GREAT memory Mark.  Here are memories of that!

- walt

In this one, somehow a candy bar "jumped" out on own its own - look  by the blue gon to the right of it.

A closeup

In this one a wire came off of the lockon after 8 weeks of running perfectly.  For perspective, see that lockon to the right, the 3rd track in, with the red light, the lockon is just below it - see the closeup next.

A closeup

On this one a wire, after, again, 8 weeks, mysteriously came loose from the TIU, which is below the ZW.

Yeah, now if I can only remember where I put my car keys.

You have mice or rats moving things around. 

While your problem has been resolved, I will mention the the tach wheels are held in position with set screws. I have had at least 3 engines with loose or missing tach wheel screws. It can cause a runaway loco.

Steve

goobernuts posted:

Look like the coupler screws from a tinplate car.

Gus: I do have tin-plate stuff and that's what was running on the tracks near where I found the screws.  After I saw your comment I made a note to check the cars when I get my stuff out of storage for 2018's layout.  THanks for that.

Hopefully the tip that Joe gave me, which turned out to be correct, is the ONLY place.

- walt

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

While your problem has been resolved, I will mention the the tach wheels are held in position with set screws. I have had at least 3 engines with loose or missing tach wheel screws. It can cause a runaway loco.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for that bit of information.    Are "tach wheels" the same thing that Gregg was referring to above ("Fly-Wheel?").

The next time I open the engine(s) up I'm going to make a point to study the can motors which have fly wheels attached (since they are PS3)

- walt

walt rapp posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

While your problem has been resolved, I will mention the the tach wheels are held in position with set screws. I have had at least 3 engines with loose or missing tach wheel screws. It can cause a runaway loco.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for that bit of information.    Are "tach wheels" the same thing that Gregg was referring to above ("Fly-Wheel?").

The next time I open the engine(s) up I'm going to make a point to study the can motors which have fly wheels attached (since they are PS3)

- walt

Walt, a flywheel is a disc sitting directly on top of the motor. The tach wheel is a round wheel on an auxiliary shaft and has black lines around like a bar code. The electronics read the stripes to control the speed. If the set screw is loose are out of alignment the electronics get an incorrect signal. This can cause a runaway engine.

Walt, I can't tell from the picture, do those screws take a hex head/Allen wrench, or are they slotted?  I've never had a banana plug with that type of set screw.

I've never had an MTH with a set screw on the flywheel.  I have had an MTH flywheel get loose and the train take off.

RJR posted:

Walt, I can't tell from the picture, do those screws take a hex head/Allen wrench, or are they slotted?  I've never had a banana plug with that type of set screw.

I've never had an MTH with a set screw on the flywheel.  I have had an MTH flywheel get loose and the train take off.

He states about halfway through the thread, it has slots.

Slot set screws are the norm on banana plugs in my experience.

Thanks, Adriatic.  I missed that detail.  I don't use banana plugs often, and the ones I've had have slotted screws with heads, rather than the true set screws that Walt shows.

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

walt rapp posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

While your problem has been resolved, I will mention the the tach wheels are held in position with set screws. I have had at least 3 engines with loose or missing tach wheel screws. It can cause a runaway loco.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for that bit of information.    Are "tach wheels" the same thing that Gregg was referring to above ("Fly-Wheel?").

The next time I open the engine(s) up I'm going to make a point to study the can motors which have fly wheels attached (since they are PS3)

- walt

Walt, a flywheel is a disc sitting directly on top of the motor. The tach wheel is a round wheel on an auxiliary shaft and has black lines around like a bar code. The electronics read the stripes to control the speed. If the set screw is loose are out of alignment the electronics get an incorrect signal. This can cause a runaway engine.

Thanks - I've replaced my tach strip twice so I'm familiar with it.  I'll check the next time that I open things up so that I know about it.

- walt