So, if say a newbie wanted to jump into O Scale/Gauge railroading and they wanted MTH P2/3 Control of their Engines…
where do they go for new stuff?
MTH…
Atlas….
or
do they go Lionel with Bluetooth control??
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MTH web site. mthtrains.com I believe.
How about one of the fine forum sponsors we have here?
Will the MTH website actually get trains to someone in a timely fashion?
and looking through the sponsors here will be overwhelming for the newbie
I’ve got him interested
but the hook is not firmly set😁
so I don’t want him to get scared off😁
@1drummer posted:So, if say a newbie wanted to jump into O Scale/Gauge railroading and they wanted MTH P2/3 Control of their Engines…
where do they go for new stuff?
There is nothing new to be found.
@1drummer posted:do they go Lionel with Bluetooth control??
That's what I would tell him. If you can't find a MTH TIU and/or a Legacy system, then use a Lionel Universal Remote or your phone for now.
Tough time to be starting out with anything other than LionChief locos. I wonder how many other potential new O gauge hobbyists are being turned off due to the unavailability of control systems.
@MikeH posted:There is nothing new to be found.
That's what I would tell him. If you can't find a MTH TIU and/or a Legacy system, then use a Lionel Universal Remote or your phone for now.
New as in unused/still pristine/no previous consumer ownership
not
new as in innovative or just created
@Mallard4468 posted:Tough time to be starting out with anything other than LionChief locos. I wonder how many other potential new O gauge hobbyists are being turned off due to the unavailability of control systems.
Do you have LionChief?
Can a Lionel with Bluetooth can be operated on my MTH DCS track?
That would help open up the field buying new engines
I don’t want my friend to buy a used Engine and then have issues
@1drummer posted:New as in unused/still pristine/no previous consumer ownership
not
new as in innovative or just created
Understood. That’s what I meant. You’ll have difficulty finding a new DCS or Legacy system.
Yes, a Lionel Legacy with BT can be operated on your track with the phone app or a Lionel Universal Remote. LC+ with Bluetooth also.
@1drummer posted:Do you have LionChief?
Can a Lionel with Bluetooth can be operated on my MTH DCS track?
That would help open up the field buying new engines
I don’t want my friend to buy a used Engine and then have issues
I have some of the entry-level LionChief engines that include the engine-specific remote. I haven't tried running them on a track that's hooked up to DCS, but since they expect a constant 18v to the track (like DCS), I don't see why they shouldn't work.
Yeah, I've had the same issue. I am new to O-Gauge and it sucks because there are no control systems of any kind available (for digital). I have an old 2007 Polar Express conventional with a CW-80, and I am sure that is going to blow up when the fan motor goes, so I hear. So I did get a LionChief starter set and that works great with the handheld remote and LionChief app, and I have a couple of LC Plus 2.0 locos that are awesome. But I think I am stuck at that point in the hobby for the foreseeable future. I want to support MTH but I cannot run their digital locos (not really wanting to go back to conventional) and it doesn't seem like they are in any hurry to make more. I know, pandemic and all, but it really seems to me that both Lionel and MTH dropped the ball big time on control systems.
@James Brown posted:Yeah, I've had the same issue. I am new to O-Gauge and it sucks because there are no control systems of any kind available (for digital). I have an old 2007 Polar Express conventional with a CW-80, and I am sure that is going to blow up when the fan motor goes, so I hear. So I did get a LionChief starter set and that works great with the handheld remote and LionChief app, and I have a couple of LC Plus 2.0 locos that are awesome. But I think I am stuck at that point in the hobby for the foreseeable future. I want to support MTH but I cannot run their digital locos (not really wanting to go back to conventional) and it doesn't seem like they are in any hurry to make more. I know, pandemic and all, but it really seems to me that both Lionel and MTH dropped the ball big time on control systems.
And yes, I know Lionel is coming out with Base3 and Cab3, but that is at least a year wait from what I hear.
Well, I showed him my layout, The MISC
MANCHESTER INTERMODAL SERVICE CENTER
Called The MISS-C
but the locals call it The MESSY😁
A fictional road just west of St. Louis
where all roads meet
Then I showed him Tony Lash layout
and a few others
He has a Shouse-a shed/house
and he’s thinking of a suspended layout, 10’ up for the grandkids (wink wink)
I told him it should be 3 tracks wide, for both directional operating and passing
we looked the bidding site that shall not be named for NIB P2/3…but he’s like me-a hold it buy it consumer…
so, here I am
looking for his best options
@James Brown posted:I know, pandemic and all, but it really seems to me that both Lionel and MTH dropped the ball big time on control systems.
And so did every major car maker, appliance manufacturer, and consumer products producer on their electronics.
The last three years have seen the biggest disruption to supply chains and manufacturing since WWII. Think about it.
Apparently Lionel and MTH were supposed to see this coming in advance and prepare for it?
I think not. The ball was taken from them. There was no ball to drop.
Mike
Most locos can be run conventionally. Dont let the lack of hardware deter you. Patience on the auction sites will yield positive results.
Find a local dealer and become familiar with what they have to offer.
You can always play the cards you have been dealt.. Conventional it is, until things brighten up.... and they will'.. 👍
Do you have LionChief? YES
Can a Lionel with Bluetooth can be operated on my MTH DCS track? YES, as noted by several folks above.
That would help open up the field buying new engines
Suggest he start with a LionChief +2.0 loco or a LionChief set and he can operate these locos on your layout while you use your DCS/PS3/PS3 locos.
I don’t want my friend to buy a used Engine and then have issues.
Then make sure he buys new from a reliable Lionel dealer (or MTH dealer if he chooses to buy a PS3 loco).
Funny how the supply chain issues aren’t affecting profits…
And trains are made where the electronics and components are made..
perhaps the ball was dropped on purpose
Here in St. Louis, We are fortunate to have a few LHS -one is an Authorized Dealer and sells new, two sell new but are not trains only; the rest sell used.
It would be nice if we had more shows..
I was in HO with DCC, and it was my wife’s desire to set up a Christmas scene with her buildings that led to us getting an MTH LOCOSOUND-in 2002..the LHS owner assured me, MTH WOULD build on that platform…”because why wouldn’t they??”
BUT, Sound, Smoke and remote control-got my attention…so I started adding cars, then P2 came along..and I was in so deep that I could justify anything 😁
sure, $10.99 for a section of track is reasonable because I need it😁
sure, $60 for a turnout makes perfect sense because it comes with more track and a lighted bumper😁
then I got a deal on a bunch of Gargraves track..
$100 at a show could get you 4-5 used MTH cars
The good ole days
That Locosound Christmas train
still runs
But, isn’t allowed to smoke 😢 in the house-but it still blows smoke rings
and when Grandma ain’t home, this Grandpa opens the windows, turns on the attic fan and turns the house into smoke haze like a KISS concert if all their pyrotechnics went off at the same time 😁🚂
Since the OP might not be familiar with the current state of control systems...
IMO, the lack of control systems is a confluence of several factors, many of which started before the pandemic and could have been handled differently. Supply chain issues (of course), the clumsy handling of Mike Wolf's "retirement" and announced closing of MTH causing havoc for DCS users, poor design of command control systems (use of proprietary / hard-to-find components). Management decisions to continue to produce locomotives but not control systems - I'm not an expert on the particular parts, but it seems like if you can make one you could make the other. Incompatible control systems - in the scale world, DCC is a standard that multiple manufacturers follow, so the owners of locos from a particular manufacturer aren't out in the cold. And interestingly, DCC systems continue to be easily obtainable.
The entire situation has led me to reconsider how I run my trains - conventional looks better every day.
If we can help, let us know.
DCS Explorer, included in MTH starter sets, allows for a 3 engine roster in its memory, but only 1 engine at a time can be run via the MTH app. It’s a way toward getting one’s proverbial toe in the DCS pool. I don’t know if DCS Explorer was sold by MTH as open stock, or only included in sets.
I added command control to my conventional layout last year. I found a nice Cab-1L and a DCS Remote Commander both from forum members.
They both work fine and run my engines. The DCS RC only runs one loco at a time but that's OK. The DCS explorer allows for up to 3 engines as mentioned above.
The CAB 1L does not run some of the latest features found in the newest engines but again, works for me.
@1drummer posted:Funny how the supply chain issues aren’t affecting profits…
And trains are made where the electronics and components are made..
perhaps the ball was dropped on purpose
Shortages always result in higher prices, which bring record profits - but only temporarily. If the shortages aren't dealt with there will soon be nothing left to sell, hence nothing to make a profit on. Trying to find a command set? Good luck.
Are you saying that Lionel and MTH engineered this shortage in order to improve their profits?
Enough of the baloney.
If you think that they're trying to take undue advantage of you then just walk away.
Mike
@RSJB18 posted:I added command control to my conventional layout last year. I found a nice Cab-1L and a DCS Remote Commander both from forum members.
They both work fine and run my engines. The DCS RC only runs one loco at a time but that's OK. The DCS explorer allows for up to 3 engines as mentioned above.
The CAB 1L does not run some of the latest features found in the newest engines but again, works for me.
Can I run MTH Digital Locos with JUST a DCS Remote Commander? I thought I needed a TIU unit too? Keep in mind I'm a noob, here!
@James Brown posted:Can I run MTH Digital Locos with JUST a DCS Remote Commander? I thought I needed a TIU unit too? Keep in mind I'm a noob, here!
Yes. Only one loco on the track at a time and not all functions however.
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Shortages always result in higher prices, which bring record profits - but only temporarily. If the shortages aren't dealt with there will soon be nothing left to sell, hence nothing to make a profit on. Trying to find a command set? Good luck.
yes, shortages result in higher prices
but in my little business, profits don’t increase as they are doing with the conglomerates..I wish they would..but I’d lose customers..
as far as finding anything-that will occur over time..because he has no choice
Are you saying that Lionel and MTH engineered this shortage in order to improve their profits?
not sure where you got that ..I said nothing of the sort-it just seems to me that since the trains AND the electronics are manufactured in the same area-it should be easier to acquire parts
Enough of the baloney.
it’s your sandwich
not mine
If you think that they're trying to take undue advantage of you then just walk away.
I have plenty of P2/3 engines, TIUs, Z-4000s, remotes and rolling stock to keep me occupied
I’m just trying to help my friend
Mike
@Mark V. Spadaro posted:DCS Explorer, included in MTH starter sets, allows for a 3 engine roster in its memory, but only 1 engine at a time can be run via the MTH app. It’s a way toward getting one’s proverbial toe in the DCS pool. I don’t know if DCS Explorer was sold by MTH as open stock, or only included in sets.
So, if a guy only wants to run one train at a time, on only one track at a time, this DCS Explorer is the way to go
But if he wants multiplayer multi train fun..with prototypical operations and READY TO RUN PLUG & PLAY
DCS TIU is the place to start.
@James Brown posted:Can I run MTH Digital Locos with JUST a DCS Remote Commander? I thought I needed a TIU unit too? Keep in mind I'm a noob, here!
Here's my set up. Simply run a pair of wires to the track buss and you are good to go. These were designed with their RTR sets so the power supply would be plugged into the RC and then connected to the track. They will work in "passive mode" which is how mine is wired (no track power going thru). The remote is infra-red and needs a line of sight to the RC receiver.
The RC gives basic functions- direction, speed, horn/whistle/bell, crew talk, smoke, front/ rear couplers. I can run two trains on two tracks but all commands will be the same for both engines.
(I have better pix but can't find them)
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@Mark V. Spadaro posted:DCS Explorer, included in MTH starter sets, allows for a 3 engine roster in its memory, but only 1 engine at a time can be run via the MTH app. It’s a way toward getting one’s proverbial toe in the DCS pool. I don’t know if DCS Explorer was sold by MTH as open stock, or only included in sets.
Mark, The DCS explorer can have three engines in the roster and run all three of them at the same time from the app.
@James Brown posted:Can I run MTH Digital Locos with JUST a DCS Remote Commander? I thought I needed a TIU unit too? Keep in mind I'm a noob, here!
James, the DCS remote commander can also be used to run multiple locomotives in a lash-up on the same track. If you have more than one DCS remote commander, you can setup another loop of track, attach the another receiver (preferably away short distance away from the first one) and run two independent trains on two independent tracks with one remote simply by pointing the remote at the corresponding receiver of the train you want to control.
From H1000:
”Mark, The DCS explorer can have three engines in the roster and run all three of them at the same time from the app.”
Good to know. Thanks.
@1drummer posted:So, if a guy only wants to run one train at a time, on only one track at a time, this DCS Explorer is the way to go
The DCS Explorer can have up to three engines in the roster AND run all three at the same time.
Simple solution to this control system problem. Switch scales and go with HO. The HO people have a standardized control system with a remote.
Plus so much more is available in locomotives and rolling stock. I hate to switch scales but if I sell most of my collection that's what I'm doing.
@feet posted:Simple solution to this control system problem. Switch scales and go with HO. The HO people have a standardized control system with a remote.
Plus so much more is available in locomotives and rolling stock. I hate to switch scales but if I sell most of my collection that's what I'm doing.
I have HO-75 engines with DIGITRAX DCC but only 2 have sound-and none I believe have smoke🚂and about 400 pieces of rolling stock with Kadee and McHenry couplers
And a whole lot of Atlas Nickel Silver Code 100 track and #6 turnouts
But, it’s small size limits my enjoyment.
I’m hoping to form a club and use it for that-which is why I haven’t sold it
@H1000 posted:The DCS Explorer can have up to three engines in the roster AND run all three at the same time.
Good to know
Inr final clarification
DCS Explorer can run all three at the same time…
can they all be ran at the same time on the same trackage?
Or does it have to be 3 independent loops?
@RSJB18 posted:Here's my set up. Simply run a pair of wires to the track buss and you are good to go. These were designed with their RTR sets so the power supply would be plugged into the RC and then connected to the track. They will work in "passive mode" which is how mine is wired (no track power going thru). The remote is infra-red and needs a line of sight to the RC receiver.
The RC gives basic functions- direction, speed, horn/whistle/bell, crew talk, smoke, front/ rear couplers. I can run two trains on two tracks but all commands will be the same for both engines.
(I have better pix but can't find them)
Passive mode-doesn’t that means you lose the Emergency Stop function?
what exactly is the “RC”?
@1drummer posted:Passive mode-doesn’t that means you lose the Emergency Stop function?
what exactly is the “RC”?
RC= remote commander
I'm an arms length from my KW transformer at all times.
@1drummer posted:I have HO-75 engines with DIGITRAX DCC but only 2 have sound-and none I believe have smoke🚂and about 400 pieces of rolling stock with Kadee and McHenry couplers
And a whole lot of Atlas Nickel Silver Code 100 track and #6 turnouts
But, it’s small size limits my enjoyment.
I’m hoping to form a club and use it for that-which is why I haven’t sold it
I've been looking a lot at HO. Yes it's small. But the variety and details really surprised me. Plus sound can be added to engines that don't have it. Most I've looked at have sound and smoke plus a few have whistle steam !
@1drummer posted:Good to know
Inr final clarification
DCS Explorer can run all three at the same time…
can they all be ran at the same time on the same trackage?
Or does it have to be 3 independent loops?
Can run on the same trackage with the Explorer. The separate sale Explorer, if still available, does not come with a power supply or hard copy instructions, unlike those in the former MTH sets so it could be challenging for a beginner. Also there is no remote for the Explorer so you need to use a smart phone or tablet.
