Why are Lionel Neil Young Sig Series AA Prices crashing?

I believe it's called supply and demand. Lionel made more NY engines than the market needed and dealers are reducing the price to move them out for new stock

 

It sucks, but one of the goals of the BTO system Lionel is going to is to alleviate this somewhat

Oh, I thought it was because no one wants a Legacy-equipped detail-lacking, another reiteration, wrong side-grill and fat roof-top fan, post-war F unit; and pay through the nose for it because someone famous endorsed it.

 

Now; a correct NYC Legacy F3A twin, with no steam generator details, a proper passenger-type pilot and both powered with smoke might be worth the $400.

 

Just IMHO...

 

Thanks,

-Mario

I couldn't find any that low.  About $500 was as low as I found.

 

 

I know I'll be called out on this, but to me, blowout prices are what the units were/are actually worth in the first place.

Yeah... but from early indications, it appears Lionel (and their overseas contractors) are botching up the "BTO system" big time by not even fulfilling Polar Express locomotive (black) orders.  All the details aren't in yet, but something is definitely amiss.  So much for BTO fixing all market ills. 

 

David

 

Could be that they were not as popular as Lionel had hoped and now its time to clear the warehouse.

Well, I never 'got' the combo of PW-style looks (or an attempt at it) with modern day

Legacy control. 

 

But maybe that's just me.

MTH makes PW clones in their Railking Scale line. Williams also makes PW clones, not to mention how many times Lionel has re-released these.

The market is saturated.

       
       


I never did either.

Ok, first of all, you're all right. Combo of PW and modern electronics, flooding the market, supply and demand, over pricing for a lackluster product and all the other arguments are true.  I don't think it was one over another.

John, you're not a jerk. Just a realist.

Wow- did not know this would be taken so personal.

Well I for one never understood the 0-27 cattle car with Vision line electronics either?

 

Sure its fun to play with, like the sound for about 5 minutes but holy cow why didn't they select a scale piece of rolling stock? Lord knows...

 

 

 

 

 

 

i love and collect scale F3/7's I like but I never found the N.Y. Versions that attractive even though I like the paint schemes. 

 

I think  trying to link old tech with new tech just does not work IMO. 

 

Maybe it is just you two.  

Nassau Hobbies, among others, indicated that orders have been very strong for the NY sets. I, and a number of people I know, are looking forward to the arrival of these sets. With the absence of LionMaster offerings anymore, somewhat smaller dressed-up sets with the latest electronics are welcome, particularly for those (probably the majority) with more modest-sized layouts. 

 

Besides, lots of folks like the postwar-type equipment. The PWC series was very popular, which added TMCC and RS to traditional trains. Now there's Legacy, so time to add that.  DC can motors and cruise - great additions that lots of people have been wanting for a long time.

 

In addition, Lionel now makes their "Postwar Inspired Sets," which of course they wouldn't be if they didn't sell. Finally, the LionChief/Lionchief Plus offerings have been huge hits, including with long-time operators. Traditional stuff with DC motors and cruise (like the NY sets) - lots of demand for this. 

I like em. 

 

Well, someone other than the Lord knows. Lionel knows, and those who have smaller layouts know too. Believe me, there are lots of people with smaller layouts who want the latest electronics and features to run on their layouts, too. Try running large scale stuff on, say, an 11x7 layout, or smaller (probably the majority), and you'll understand. 

It's not that difficult to fix the semi-scale issue with this car.  I have a $15 Weaver scale cattle car that I'm just going to drop the body onto this car.  Harry Henning did that mod, looks great, so I figured I'd do one as well.

 

Very well said.

 

Art

I love the PWC sets.  Classic looks with all the bells and whistles.  I have five of them.  That's enough.  I can see both sides of the argument.  I'm just a guy who thinks playing with toy trains shouldn't be about realism, but about fantasy and fun.  Rock on Neil.  You got some of my dough.  My favorite album is Zuma.  Listening to the songs, I think he was having women problems then.  Back to fantasy and fun...

So, where are all these bargains?  I've looked and looked for the Texas Special Neil Young versions at the low prices, but can't find any.  Lionel has some S gauge models, but no O gauge on their site.

Some of us would have ordered the sets or bought them already had the cars been available with them. My understanding is you can get the locos but not the cars (yet).  For me, I have so many F3s that another set is nice but for these I wanted the set.

Marty, while it's true we don't know the full story yet, it's also true that Lionel communications on these matters (i.e., the CZ and now the black Polar Express) is neither the swiftest nor very pro-active.  And it seldom seems accurate.  I mean Charlie Ro just had an open house with Lionel top brass there two Saturdays ago, and you think they could have been pro-active about the black P/E Berk short-shipping?  From the sounds of things, it sure doesn't seem like they were.

 

That's all I'm saying for now.  Definitely bears close watching.  Otherwise it'll be tough to take any additional products billed as BTO very seriously. 

 

Now back to the topic at hand...  

 

David

Been waiting on my add on 2 pack, hoping that they match up well with my K-Line FOM 15 inchers.  Early next year or maybe never?

 

Bruce

Trains seem to worth not their actual value but what people are willing to pay for them. Take for instance Bachmann Williams. The only difference between them and the "high end" trains is a cheap electronics board and some minor detailing, but they sell at 1/3 the price (or less) of the "high end" trains.  I am convinced that many model train buyers buy on impulse not taking the time to figure out or care about the real value of the content of these toys that are manufactured using extremely low end labor and materials.

I don't know how many they have in stock, but Mario's (great dealer) has the Texas Special set at $475 and regularly sends 10%+ off coupons to customers.  That's approaching $100 off the pre-order price I paid at Nassau (even though I did not pre-order...Nassau was great to deal with).

 

So getting close to 20% off there, but I'm glad I got the AA set when I did.  I'm very happy with them.  When I did my shopping for a Tex Spec Set, I considered MTH and Williams.  MTH was tough to locate because I don't think they have a recent offering (like PS3), or at least I couldn't find one back in the spring.  Williams looked really nice but most dealer prices on any of those I could find were approaching the Lionel Legacy Pre-order...for the extra money, the extra features: lights, double smokers on both powered & non-powered, railsounds, odyssey cruise and command control were easily worth the difference over Williams...I don't think I could upgrade them for the difference.

 

Long story shorter...I'm very happy with my purchase!  As others have mentioned PW style with all the bells & whistles(horns)   The BTO method will likely mean fewer available to those like myself who don't really 'pre-order' much, and can't afford to play in the higher end of Legacy...but I'm always thankful for a decent offering...these qualified for me even at the pre-order price.

There is a world of difference in detailing and fidelity to scale between say, a Williams by Bachmann GP9 (a postwar Lionel GP9 knock-off) and a Lionel signature or MTH Premier GP9.

 

Rusty

What is also interesting based on the comments of PW style with Legacy electronics, is at least the NY sets have can motors...

The Lionel PWC trains are Pullmor motors and TMCC, which is 3 steps forward, 2 steps back....not even close to can motor TMCC performance or Legacy can motors.

Now having said that, I love PWC, because I love the durability and reliability of Pullmor motors, despite my PWC Tx Sp seemingly broken atm, but...I bet I can fix it!

I have the Neil Young PRR F3 AA set and just bought a non NY Lionel WP Legacy F3 AA set.

The difference appearance wise seems to be more detail on the non-NY WP, and it sits a tad higher and/or is actually a slightly larger engine.

Both run the same, except that the non NY had oversized traction tires that got chewed up from the brake shoes rubbing on them.

Neil Young does not allow that shabby QC to happen on his sets!

I have the SF F3s with Post War color scheme.  I love them. Nothing beats an ABBA with the Aluminum passenger cars all running.  Might have to pick up the Texas Specials.

I for one would love to see more Legacy PW type engines, ie. 773, 646, EP's, Budd Cars. I like the GP's, all they need to do there is put PW paint schemes and less detail for a lower MSP.

 

Art

I'm not sure anyone other then a rivet counting modeler would notice most of the detail errors mentioned above.

But.. for the price Lionel is asking, I'm wondering why no PW style coupler sheilds that leaves a big ugly hole in the pilot?

Talk about a cheapout...Now thats something that really looks bad..

Joe  

I learn a great deal from Marty's posts and his website but my sense is that if a Lionel exec were caught clubbing baby seals for sport Marty would have a ready justification. 

 

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.  I'm off to go shoot baby deer for sport. 

That's a modification that I like! 

 

Thanks,

- Mario

 

I would be one of those people. My layout is only 6x9. I run traditional (PW) size trains but that doesn't mean I don't want modern electronics. LionChief Plus locos are great for a guy like me, and I bet I'm not alone. I love those scale trains but they won't run on my layout. If the Neil Young Sig Series was a LionChief Plus loco I would buy it. I don't have a Legacy or DCS or TMCC system so LC+ give me remote operation without investing a lot of money in a control system. I don't know why these locos haven't sold well. 

They are using the baby seal pelts to protect the Gold Polar Express engines during shipment

Ha!  Excellent.  Then maybe the pilot axles wouldn't be falling out.  ;-)

it's called humor.  Try prune juice with your turkey tomorrow and lighten up.  

Lotsa good conversation here.  Lets not get the thread deleted.

 

I'm a big boy.  I can take it.  And RAL the humors not wasted on me.

I wouldn't have posted the comments I did, if I was relying solely on second-hand info.  The most accurate information available to consumers at this time is Ro has not been able to get clear direction from Lionel as to whether any more black P/E Berks are arriving.  He was grossly short-shipped as of yesterday.  That's the nicest way to put it for now.

 

Whether anybody at Lionel knows if more are enroute?  Only they know, but nobody is saying anything on record right now.

 

Communication is key... but it's not Lionel's strongest asset right now.  Perhaps they just don't know anything either.  Just seems to be a MAJOR disconnect these days.

 

David