Williams E-60 ?

My 2 Williams E-60 locos have the normal Williams two motor chassis. I know early on Williams sold E-60 bodies the customer would provide a Lionel frame and motor....which sounds like what you have.  Never seen a full Williams unit with single motor. So the unit you are looking at is tough to say how it performs. The two motor units run like all Williams or WbB locos.

Something that I liked about the old Williams before the Bachmann take over is that every few years they changed the offered engines numbers. I have two or three E60s with different Amtrak E60s with different numbers. I would look for a later 2 motored one. The singles tend to be powered by MPC F3 gut swapping.

Also if you are interested there is a company that lists on Ebay that sells scale length shells for an E60. Williams shells are a bit short in length. 

I have a few unbuilt early Williams E60 kits that were designed to use Lionel parts.
They were designed to use either one or two motor trucks from a current production Lionel Geep.
There was an adapter plate included to allow the use of a dummy truck instead of one motor.

The Lionel e-unit was also used if the purchaser wanted reversing.

The samples I have did not come with a fuel tank. I believe the purchaser was supposed to also use a Lionel fuel tank.

Don't recall whether the Lionel lamp sockets were to be used.

Silver Lake posted:

Also if you are interested there is a company that lists on Ebay that sells scale length shells for an E60. Williams shells are a bit short in length. 

I have been watching those shells.  Anyone build one?  What's does the finished product looks like?  Pictures please!

I have a WIlliams E60 with the E-8 style three-axle trucks and came with a single motor. Wasn't very good at hauling the six-car Amfleet set offered at the time (early 1990's?). In fact I have photos of it being assisted by an MTH Conrail diesel after it overheated and simply stalled out on a floor layout during its maiden run. After that I had it upgraded to twin motors by Timko's, using a trimmed-down flywheel to fit under the pantograph end.

I haven't had a chance to run it though--I wanted to get the roof painted black (Williams thought it more important to match the earlier silver-roofed E60's than oh, I dunno the real thing ) and maybe upgrade the stamped-metal pans to something better looking. But I trust that when I do run it, its performance will be akin to most other Williams units since the second truck is actually contributing tractive effort and not dead weight.

---PCJ

The mention of scale shells on Evilbay interested me. As a scratch builder  (did a PRR O1boxcab about 20 years ago) and modifier of the existing locos (am attempting a traditional sized NH EP3 on a GG1 chassis) those shells would be the way to go from my perspective. Start by getting the measurements of both RK and MTH scale U30C's and SD60's frames, then begin looking (thinking you could sell the shell and whatever else you don't need). The toughest part of the project might be be acquiring the pantographs. Good luck whatever way you go. But DON'T buy the single motor one unless you're planning on pulling no more than 6 light plastic passenger cars on a level route.

I have an old E60 #960 which all of the first offerings were numbered because the number boards were embossed with that number. It has 4 wheel Lionel MPC trucks with one Motor. The stripes are a sticker. When I repainted the roof(my first repaint) I swiped some white paint into the emboss, rubbed it out and the numbers really popped out visually. The horns are cast in black plastic.

My more modern production  #964 Williams E60 has not yet had the roof paint done. The stripes are painted. The trucks are 6 wheel Williams E7 trucks both trucks have motors. The number boards are painted. Strangely I am just noticing that the windows look like they are beveled. Weird. The horns are cast in silver plastic that does not match the silver of the body.

But DON'T buy the single motor one unless you're planning on pulling no more than 6 light plastic passenger cars on a level route.

While we are on the subject of things to avoid:

It is fairly common to see Williams E60's with missing or broken pantographs.  To the best of my knowledge, they are unavailable. I see people looking for them here from time to time. I don't think I've ever seen a positive response, other than to substitute something else.

C W Burfle posted:

But DON'T buy the single motor one unless you're planning on pulling no more than 6 light plastic passenger cars on a level route.

While we are on the subject of things to avoid:

It is fairly common to see Williams E60's with missing or broken pantographs.  To the best of my knowledge, they are unavailable. I see people looking for them here from time to time. I don't think I've ever seen a positive response, other than to substitute something else.

Yep...both my runners and a parts loco I have the pantographs are broken junk. Looking for years for something to replace them. About to use a GG1 and stop looking. 

AMCDave posted:

C W Burfle posted:

But DON'T buy the single motor one unless you're planning on pulling no more than 6 light plastic passenger cars on a level route.

While we are on the subject of things to avoid:

It is fairly common to see Williams E60's with missing or broken pantographs.  To the best of my knowledge, they are unavailable. I see people looking for them here from time to time. I don't think I've ever seen a positive response, other than to substitute something else.

Yep...both my runners and a parts loco I have the pantographs are broken junk. Looking for years for something to replace them. About to use a GG1 and stop looking. 

or either an Atlas O or an MTH AEM-7 Panto... maybe the Acela panto might work as well?

What you are looking for is the single arm or Favley (also spelled Faiveley) pantograph. I acquired 2 of these a number of years ago from Atlas O for a project that never came to be. Sold them to a forum member for the same price Lionel GG1 pantographs were selling for at the time. Inasmuch as they are common in Europe, I suggest checking German and French hobby suppliers for them. I have found some that way; not inexpensive!

Thanks all, for the info.  It has been enlightening.  Way back in the very early '80s, I purchased a twin motored E-60 from Charles Ro.  Back then I was more into Hi-Rail.  When the loco finally arrived, I was less than impressed.  I don't recall what ever happened to it.  

Try ABG Technologies in Zurich Switzerland for Favely pantographs. Sommerfeldt of Germany also made one P/N 997 (Out of production).

modeltrainsparts posted:

Try ABG Technologies in Zurich Switzerland for Favely pantographs.

Good to know that there are other pantographs that can be used. I imagine some modifications would need to be done in order to fit / mount them.
That might be a good solution for operators. Not so much for collectors.

Does anybody collect Williams?
- probably only a few people.

The Williams that are of interest to me are their kits (must be unbuilt and complete):
E60
"Madison" style passenger cars
Aluminum passenger cars

Here's my Williams PRR E-60.  Lionel 6 wheel Magnetraction trucks and a large center tank.  I think it looks good and it pulls very well.

Gpritch posted:

Silver Lake posted:

Also if you are interested there is a company that lists on Ebay that sells scale length shells for an E60. Williams shells are a bit short in length. 

I have been watching those shells.  Anyone build one?  What's does the finished product looks like?  Pictures please!

I have the shell, the chassis from an MTH SD60 to use with it and GE side frames.  I haven't had time to work on the project, but when I do, I'll post pictures.  Since the shell is for an E60MA which are rebuilds in the 600 series, it doesn't really work for New Jersey Transit, but I may still paint it that way.  I have those decals.  I need to work out what I will use for pantographs as well as window glass.  

The Williams E60's are good runners.  I have several including a Conrail one built on a Lionel Chassis from the kit days.