WILLIAMS FLYWHEEL MOTOR QUESTION

Well, what locomotive would be a key piece of information here.  Is this a diesel or steam?  What's the exact model?

I have a Williams by Williams FM trainmaster which I purchased about 20 or so years ago.

If this is the one without flywheels, the "cure" is to replace the motors as there is no shaft on top to attach the flywheel.

@POTRZBE posted:

I have a Williams by Williams FM trainmaster which I purchased about 20 or so years ago.

Some of these came with big Pittmans and don’t need a flywheel. Others don’t have flywheels but I believe are single shaft so the motor has to be replaced. Might be possible but likely the gear will have to be put on the new motor and that might not be easy.

Pete

I had a couple of the really old Williams diesels without the flywheels, and I saw no way to "fix" that without replacing the motor.  As I recall, the motors were fairly odd in that they were bigger than the typical Mabuchi 3xx, and they had no brand information on the motor.  That being the case, I'm not even sure you could mount something like a Mabuchi, the thought never occurred to me.  They also were current hogs and drew more power than most similar motors free-running.

My apologies for not being clearer on the definition of my problem. Both motors in this engine work just fine. The gears on the rear end are continually slipping and as near as I can tell, the slipping is between the gear that comes out of the bottom of the motor and the gear that sits in the well where the motor sits. My thought was that if everything lined up properly, all gears would engage as they should and the wheels would keep turning instead of keep slipping.

Despite most thinking Williams are bulletproof, the worm gear can wear out. You can pull the motor from the truck to find out but if that gear is worn but its not an easy fix as Bachmann stocks few parts for these engines anymore.

Remove the shell then remove the phillips screw under the truck and the motor should pull away.

Pete

@POTRZBE posted:

...between the gear that comes out of the bottom of the motor and the gear that sits in the well where the motor sits...

If the worm gear on the motor is affixed to the armature tight, the problem is likely that the worm wheel on the axle has cracked, spinning on the axle, and has to be replaced. The clearance/lash is not adjustable.

If this worm wheel gear was readily available, it would put a lot of Williams diesels back on the tracks.

They wear out a lot faster when they're not greased.

There was plenty of grease in the well when I took off the motor and Wheels. I cleaned out the well and added red and tacky to the gear on the motor. I was just wondering if there was a trick to lining up the motor gear with the wheel gear. I shall look further into this and report back.

@POTRZBE posted:

There was plenty of grease in the well when I took off the motor and Wheels. I cleaned out the well and added red and tacky to the gear on the motor. I was just wondering if there was a trick to lining up the motor gear with the wheel gear. I shall look further into this and report back.

If the gear is not worn then it may just be loose on the axle. Normally the motor mount ensures the gears are engaged. No adjustment should be needed other than making sure the screw is tight.

Pete

Like Pete says, there's no "adjustment" to the mesh.

The gear that engages the gear on the motor moves left to right on the grooved axle.  All gears seem to be engaged properly and move forward, neutral, reverse when power is applied.  Yet, on the track, that wheel set just spins, leaving the entire engine to just sit there.  This engine also has a new set of traction tires I put on figuring that was the problem at first.

The gear should NOT move on the axle, you have identified your problem!

The gear on the axle should not move. Its likely slipping. You should be able to drop the axle out of the truck. The real fix would be to replace the whole wheelset with the gear but I doubt its available. If you get it out you can try throughly degreasing it, then apply some loctite/Permatex 640 retaining compound to hold it in place.

Pete

@POTRZBE posted:

The gear that engages the gear on the motor moves left to right on the grooved axle

@ADCX Rob posted:

If the worm gear on the motor is affixed to the armature tight, the problem is likely that the worm wheel on the axle has cracked, spinning on the axle, and has to be replaced. The clearance/lash is not adjustable.

A big thank you to all who responded.  If I can clean and put back the gear that slips, does it favor one side or another or sit in admittedly small center of said axle?

It should directly line up with the worm on the motor, typically centered on the shaft.

I use Loctite 660 Retain compound as it's gap filling and you can get a small tube on Amazon for a few bucks.  It's not good to keep retaining compound for a long period of time, it goes bad.

As long as the gear isn’t cracked, ( more than likely it is though ) retaining compound will do the job…….it is important that the parts needing mending are thoroughly clean!!….once cleaned, carefully inspect the gear, ……if it’s cracked, it will be down in the heel of the gear, not on the toes, ….it will not be obvious….it doesn’t jump right out & go look at me!….nothing will be more disappointing than putting it all back together, just to hear the tell tale click, click, click, of a cracked gear,….

Pat

Pat, I'm betting on the split gear, but who knows.  We all know of gears that wander off position on the shaft without splitting...

Just repaired a GP-9 that I had stored for several years, the gear cracked during storage probably a excessive interference fit. Set it up in the mill and drilled a 1/32" blind hole hole in the bottom of the top dead center groove 3/4 of the way through gear and shaft, pinned and staked. Also changed motors from parallel to series while I was at it, makes a big difference.

Typically, the issue with having a cracked gear, other than the obvious issue with it spinning on the shaft, is there's also a "hitch" in it's get-along when it meshes with the mating gear due to the incorrect tooth spacing.

It did require a small amount of deburring but she purrs like a kitten even at a crawl, but I forgot to mention I was a machinist for forty three years and still have my own shop.

Yep, ….once they’re cracked, it’s game, set, match, IMO, ….used to be able to call Bachmann and cry on the phone, and they’d send a small handful of gears, …..from the ones I’ve swapped, the gear’s ID is off from the axle’s swedged OD, ..they’re pretty tight just going on the smooth axle, let alone when it gets down to the splines…..I always resized the gear for a better fit,…

Pat

@charles mcdaniel posted:

It did require a small amount of deburring but she purrs like a kitten even at a crawl, but I forgot to mention I was a machinist for forty three years and still have my own shop.

Did you happen to take pictures? …..I’d love to see how you did that, …..sounds interesting!…

Pat

Are you gentlemen saying that the gear which appears to be metal (brass?) is cracked?

Yes it is unfortunately.

@POTRZBE posted:

Are you gentlemen saying that the gear which appears to be metal (brass?) is cracked?

Most likely, a very close inspection after you clean it up will tell the tale.  As Pat says, look in the valleys of the teeth for a tiny hairline crack.

@harmonyards posted:

Did you happen to take pictures? …..I’d love to see how you did that, …..sounds interesting!…

Pat

Sorry I didn't take pictures but I can try to give details. Disassembled the truck and verified the helical gear was cracked, reassembled the truck and fabricated several very small wooden wedges and wedged all areas of the gear and wheels tight diametrically and laterally lining up a bottom of a gear tooth at top dead center ninety degrees from the crack and placed truck in the mill vise with padding (didn't squeeze to tight) Drilled a 1/32" hole approximately three quarters through the gear, shaft and and other side of gear being careful not to come out the bottom side of gear as I figured it wouldn't come through at favorable spot. Made a pin from the unfluted shank from a 1/32" drill bit and installed with a tiny bit of super glue on top and staked the hole to prevent pin from coming out. Dressed up the area with needle  and thread files where needed and gave it a good bath with mineral spirits. Very tedious drilling, it took longer to drill the hole than hole than the whole setup! No new gears or trucks were available that I could find so I figured I had nothing to lose. Hope that helps you just have to be very patient drilling the hole.

You might find some helpful information in this thread, especially @John Ochab's contributions. Timko Repair Depot should have the worm wheel.