Wiring Williams conventional F-3 A units to operate back to back (A-A or A-B-A)?

Reverse the leads on the trailing A-unit.

I would say go for the TMCC upgrade my Williams f3 runs real smooth with err cruise commander and the rails sounds was also a great upgrade.

more expensive option though. I have the Santa Fe yellow bonnets. ABBA with only one Powered A unit. I want to do the powered upgrade to the dummy and add tmcc and sounds to it but first I want to figure out smoke in the first A unit . cause once I figure that out. how cool would it look with all 4 smoking and having some pulling power too with 2 powered units. Plans are also to fix the pilot on them also.

Reversing the leads will cost zero. For TMCC you would need two power boards, Cruise Commander or DC Commander. One board is not really rated for 4 motors.

If you did decide on TMCC it would be significantly more economical to find a TMCC engine set in your road name. Otherwise you would have to buy a motor kit from Bachmann and two TMCC motor drivers.

K-Line made B&O F units with TMCC and 4 motors you could likely find for the cost to upgrade your Williams.

Pete

pro hobby posted:

Wiring Williams A units to operate back to back?

I have two sets of Williams B&O F-3 A-B-A diesel sets.  Each set has only 1 powered A unit.

I would like to run two powered A units back to back.

Plan A would be converting to TMCC for both units.

Plan B would be to tether the two engines so that they run in sync using the existing E unit in one A unit.

Plan C would be to by pass the E-units and wire the motors so that they only run in sync in one direction when back to back.

Looking for suggestions.

Your reading way to much into this.

First wire both units in series and then reverse the motor leads on the trailing unit. No cost other than your time.

Will work like a charm.

Karl

in his case he already has 2 powered units so 2 cruise commanders @ $230.00 if he wants new sounds I think it's $89 for total of $319.00 finding a tmcc Set in that price range would be hard to do. in my case with yellow bonnets the only way to get them is to buy the MTH dealer set or the rail king set. which I have the rail king set also. but the Williams engines are larger heavier and nicer looking than the railking one's so that's why I upgraded the one powered engine I have but now I want to do the rest of them. plus do a power upgrade since I only have one powered unit. but for him your right it would be cheaper just to switch the leads. but TMCC gives him more options if his layout has command control (not sure it does).  

I've done it two ways. With a pair of GP9's, I wired them both in series, and reversed the motor wires on the trailing unit. works great in conventional.

I also did two Williams Genesis units with TMCC in each. or, I should say, the late Boxcar Bill did them. Costs more, but also works great and very flexible. Set them up as a "Multiple unit consist" as Train 4.  Here's a short video of them in action. GREAT pulling power.

I took the circuit boards out and installed bridge rectifiers in my Williams F-7's. Have one A unit going forward and one going in reverse with an unpowered B unit between them. I did that before I found out you can reverse the wires in the motor pins sockets. 

Lee Fritz

Karl Reichenbach posted:

pro hobby posted:

Wiring Williams A units to operate back to back?

I have two sets of Williams B&O F-3 A-B-A diesel sets.  Each set has only 1 powered A unit.

I would like to run two powered A units back to back.

Plan A would be converting to TMCC for both units.

Plan B would be to tether the two engines so that they run in sync using the existing E unit in one A unit.

Plan C would be to by pass the E-units and wire the motors so that they only run in sync in one direction when back to back.

Looking for suggestions.

Your reading way to much into this.

First wire both units in series and then reverse the motor leads on the trailing unit. No cost other than your time.

Will work like a charm.

Karl

Question: Did you leave the E-unit in each engine to allow reversing the A-A units?  Do the A-A reverse units stay in sync at all times?

Yes, and 90% of the time they stay in sync, 100% if you pause appropriately for direction changes and your trackwork is clean.

when I tried that and yes I was fast about switching directions mine didn't stay in sync that's why I went to tmcc

Jhainer posted:

...yes I was fast about switching directions mine didn't stay in sync ...

And, there's the problem.

pro hobby posted:

Karl Reichenbach posted:

pro hobby posted:

Wiring Williams A units to operate back to back?

I have two sets of Williams B&O F-3 A-B-A diesel sets.  Each set has only 1 powered A unit.

I would like to run two powered A units back to back.

Plan A would be converting to TMCC for both units.

Plan B would be to tether the two engines so that they run in sync using the existing E unit in one A unit.

Plan C would be to by pass the E-units and wire the motors so that they only run in sync in one direction when back to back.

Looking for suggestions.

Your reading way to much into this.

First wire both units in series and then reverse the motor leads on the trailing unit. No cost other than your time.

Will work like a charm.

Karl

Question: Did you leave the E-unit in each engine to allow reversing the A-A units?  Do the A-A reverse units stay in sync at all times?

Yes, and I would say they stay in snyc 98% of the time.

Karl

Didn't we run a single "hot"  wire e-unit to E unit back  when?? to keep the units in  sync?