ZW L, Z 4000, or other transformers

Brian,

   I have 3 - Z4K's and they power most of my Train Room, both the ZW-L and the Z4K are great Transformer, the ZW-L is seriously expensive however.  If you plan on purchasing a Z4K, start looking around even before you purchase the Transformer for a Z4K Side Receiver, it expands the running of your old Conventional Engines with the ability to control them with the DCS HHRC. MTH no longer carries the Side Receiver in it's sales inventory.   Because of the Z4K's Engineering the old conventional engines run smoother than anything you have every experienced from your conventional engines, and with all the different functions, including slow speed control, when set up properly.

IMO run DCS & Legacy both with either Z4K's or ZW-L's.  I am a big believer in always over powering your layout, for the best quality running and for expanding your layout in the future.

PCRR/Dave

Construction continues on the Pine Creek Train Room.

Brian.

If you are powering ho..that kw is plenty.

I run STD with a zw.. 2 engines is a strain. Unless they are light weight.

Back in the day they would phase zws on large layouts..

Got a watch it.. Cause you get 40 volts. Wide open.. I phased a kw and zw when I had that one motor in my STD berk. 24 volt. It now has 12v.

THe older 250 and 275 watt ZWs can put the entire amperage of the units to the track on one handle. That's 13.9 amps and 15.3 amps respectively at 18 volts. Nothing else comes close. You only really need that with original prewar standard gauge engines, but be careful, they will get hot.

George

I use exclusively and heartily endorse the MTH Z4000's!

You can protect your trains without spending a lot of money for a new transformer. A three dollar fast acting breaker and a fifty cent TVS will give you that protection without spending over seven hundred for a ZW-L. I use an MRC Pure Power Dual that I got for two hundred. Plenty of power for multiple trains. There are many posts here about protecting your trains. Here is one. Generally, it is not slow breakers that damage electronics, it is the voltage spikes that a breaker does not protect against.

Here is one of the power districts for arguably one of the most famous 3 rail display layouts in the US. Perhaps that will give some ideas.

I'm not really worried about circuit breakers. I need a transformer that will stay cool for durations of 8-10 hours of continuous running and operating accessories. That is why I was looking into the more expensive ones is because both Z 4000 and ZW L have cooling fans and I was impressed at how well the Z 4000 stayed cool on the AGTTA layout.

Nobody answered my question about the newer ZW being air cooled, it looks to have a vent on top but I don't know if there's a fan in there or not. If it is it would be significantly cheaper...

Our LTS runs 4 trains everyday from opening to closing with two ZW's. They get slightly warm and hum but never hot. I am told that they are ultimately reliable. Because of kids sticking their fingers on the track and derailing some cars they have burned up circuit boards on two PS engines. They did not notice nor find the derailment soon enough. 

Brian - The ZW-L has a temperature controlled fan inside of it.  It has stayed quite cool for me.  It's just a beast to move around.

The first question anyone should be asking before providing recommendations is to grasp sizing - what is the measured current draw in amps on the existing setup?

Second, have you cracked open the KW to check condition of the rollers? They are a wear item and easily replaced.

If you like the ZW style handles, a traditional ZW is fairly inexpensive compared to some of the new options out there. You could use the ZW to power the tracks and retain and phase the KW to power accessories/lights splitting the workload (minimizing heat).

Transformers tend to overheat when they are taxed near their maximum capacity. If money is no object, then the ZW-L is very nice. If you are on a budget, there are other options. If you are worried about heat, why not modify an older ZW by drilling some vents in the case. There are fans available for computers that could be added. You would need to add an isolated power driver for it. You could even add a screen to keep out dust. You could also add a TVS and fast acting breaker. It seems that all that could be done for a fraction of what a ZW-L costs.

George

It should be noted that, to this day, the Z4000 is the only high-power train transformer to achieve a UL rating.

Tinplate Art posted:

It should be noted that, to this day, the Z4000 is the only high-power train transformer to achieve a UL rating.

The Lionel ZW-L is ETL listed. What's the difference? Lionel chose a different testing agency. You could also say the Z4000 is not ETL listed.

Also, the Lionel PH-180 power supplies are ETL listed. The ZW-C is not ETL listed, because it does not have an internal power source.

George

bmoran4 posted:

The first question anyone should be asking before providing recommendations is to grasp sizing - what is the measured current draw in amps on the existing setup?

Second, have you cracked open the KW to check condition of the rollers? They are a wear item and easily replaced.

If you like the ZW style handles, a traditional ZW is fairly inexpensive compared to some of the new options out there. You could use the ZW to power the tracks and retain and phase the KW to power accessories/lights splitting the workload (minimizing heat).

The KW drastically drops in performance as it's temperature goes up, and the draw gets greater with every event as we add new accessories and bigger locos & trains. But even when we were just running a couple tracks of O gage the KW would get warm after a while and the trains would slow.

I might ask around about the newer ZW and see if I can find one to check out in person, it looks well made and is only about $150 or so.

Sounds like you are definitely drawing quite a few amps from the KW. I stand by me recommendation to check the rollers and to add a sister traditional ZW in phase.

Brian,

   You can pick up a rebuilt ZW for about $100 -$125.00, Contact Jim Lawson  (O Gauge Jim) here on the OGR.  He has Quality rebuilt ZW's for sale.  

Further check out the Train Shows in your area also, many times at the end of the shows, the vendors having the ZW's for sale, will sell them at a very low cost so they do not have to transport them back to their shops.  

I picked up a rebuilt ZW here in the Pittsburgh, Pa area at the old Adamsburg Fire House Train Show, for $75.00 in just this manner a while back.

I am going to use 3 old ZW's also in my new Train Room, with 10 Amp Resettable Breakers between them and my DCS's on every red line.  However IMO the modern Z4K or the ZW-L are the way to power, if you can afford to purchase them.  

I suggest you keep an eye on the OGR for sale threads for at least one, maybe 2 - Z4K Transformers.  Your KW is a might under powered and under channeled, for the engineering layout design you are trying to accomplish. Keep your KW for running Street Car lines and bumper cars, or as I do for an smaller inside conventional loop, for the little kids to have fun operating.

Good luck with acquiring what ever Transformer you finally decide on.

PCRR/Dave

From my understanding is the ZW used a thermal  circuit breaker,  so you don't want to drill holes or take top off to cool, 

Not sure if the replacement circuit breakers work the same,

RIKI,

   We have been using external 7 - 10 Amp Resettable Circuit Breakers with the ZW Transformers for years now, they work quite well with DCS and modern engines.

Never drill holes in any ZW Transformer Casing for cooling purposes.

PCRR/Dave

I have a ZW-L.  It is a beast and it can handle a lot.  Yes, it has a temperature controlled cooling fan inside.  It can also deliver 620 watts of power.  Any channel can put out up to 18 volts  @ 10 amps (180 watts) but total output will not exceed 620 watts.  This is serious power that will not disappoint.  Z4000s are cheaper but you'll need at least 2 to match the power of one ZW-L.  It also has all the latest built in protection for power overloads.  It can run in conventional mode or command mode as well.

If you catch a sale they can be had for around $700.  In my opinion, they are worth every penny.

I run a ZWL at all of the train show events that our club does often for several days at a time with no issues. Also my home layout with all accessories and light is powered by one ZWL with no issues. Yes it is a big beast but it performs better than any other transformer that I have used.

RIKI,

   Jeff and Joe have pretty much spelled out the advantages of the ZW-L, and I agree with them, I would like to pick up one used for a decent cost however.  

PCRR/Dave