ZW repair

I would dump that transformer.

What bulbs are in the red and green sockets? #51 or #1445?

I wonder if trying to drive a 1445 through the resistor is your issue.

I would put a 6 volt bulb in the sockets

"Dump that transformer"  is not any help, Marty.  If you're a Lionel trained technician, I would think you'd be able to come up with more than that.

Changing from the 1444 bulbs to 6 volt bulbs didn't stop the resistor wire from  heating up and smoking.

If I use the 18 volt bulbs, could I eliminate the resistor wire? 

A picture of your transformer would help. Some of the early model r's used a resistor wire while the later models did not.

Did this transformer ever work, or did you just get it? At first guess, I'd say it sounds like a botched repair job.

Does the resistor wire always over heat or only when a certain throttle is advanced? Does it overheat only when the breaker is tripped?

Good photos of the internals would help a lot.

Changing from the 1444 bulbs to 6 volt bulbs didn't stop the resistor wire from  heating up and smoking.

What happens if you leave the bulbs out altogether?
Did you use  #51 6 volt bulbs or something else?

If I use the 18 volt bulbs, could I eliminate the resistor wire? 

Your transformer has a problem. I don't think this is the time to mess with the design.

Something is not making sense to me. Is it the lamp resistor wire that is smoking? If it is a true model R there should be no lamp resistance wire as the pilot bulbs are 18 volt.  Does your transformer have the whistle control resistor riveted to the whistle/direction control switch assembly, or a separate resistor wire?

A gut feeling  without seeing any pictures is the red circuit breaker pilot lamp wire is connected to the wrong leg of the circuit breaker if it is not lighting.

Maybe this is not an “R” version, since there IS a resistor wire.

I disconnected the resistor wire.  I plugged it in and watched it closely for 20 min.  No smoke and the voltage stayed at 20 volts.

The Right bulb stayed dimly lit.  It was not affected by any increase by any of the handles.

The left side bulb’s brightness increased & decreased with the left handle, going off when the handle was brought back to 0.

The circuit breaker works as it should, clicking and interrupting the output.  Then after a few seconds, another click and power restored.  Again, the right light bulb stayed dimly lit through the whole sequence.

The left light does not go on unless the “D” handle is advanced. 

It seems I could use the transformer the way it is, but I’d much rather have it working correctly if possible.

I have had this Xformer for a long time, and it's been working until it started smoking.  I guess smoking ruined it's health.

I hope these pix help.

The reason for this ZW is.........

I have 2 1033's pitching in for the ZW.

BTW, Very nice layout Harry

Thanks, Walter.  It's 30 X 40'. 

3 mainlines, 2 yards. My favorite engine is 736 converted to TMCC. 

I can run long trains with C/NW trainmaster and two C/NW GP 20's  All 3 converted to TMCC with an old TAS smoke unit in each of those 3.  They run together well in a consist.  I've run 5 trains at once on this layout. 

OK, the left circuit breaker pilot lamp should only be illuminated when the circuit breaker opens, and it's brightness will very when any of the handles are moved, when there is a short somewhere on the layout. So if the circuit breaker lamp is on all the time, something is shorted within the transformer. It seems strange if no one has tinkered with it, it would happen on it's own. That is not a model R has it has the old style circuit breaker. Should use 6 volt bulbs. You said the pilot light is dim, are you sure it is a 6 volt bulb, not an 18 volt? It looks like the C handle roller retainer got pretty toasty, looks pretty discolored, and both rollers need replacing. Can you get a close up picture of exactly which wire is over heating and where it is connected to? I would look for a loose solder lug on the left hand side whistle control that may have shifted and touching another lug or connection.

It must be contagious.  My ZW has been running my layout for over 5 years and tonight it started to smoke.  I was running three trains at the time, a 671 a 2046 and a dual engine 2353.   These should only pull about 140W.  Most of the lights are on another transformer, and I replaced all switch and switch controller lights with LEDs years ago.  I shut it down and unplugged it and removed it from the layout.  Monday I will open it up and see what it looks like inside.

Thanks Chuck,  I have the Greenberg repair book.  I'll start looking for a short.   I put the circuit breaker in last week, thinking it might be the problem, so it's not the original one.  I'll make sure to use the non R wiring diagram. 

No type r has a layered core as shown in your photo. I would look at the back of the whistle switches to see if any of the solder terminals have rotated and are contacting each other. Also look at the 2 solder terminals on each light socket and see if any have rotated and are touching each other or the lamp bracket.  Look at wires coming off the back off the  U or common brass bar to see if they are touching the aluminum core brackets. The bulbs should be 51. 

Another note, if the red light stays illuminated all the time, the wire from the red pilot lamp could be connected to the wrong terminal on the circuit breaker.

I found a wire not connected on the right side near the resistor wire.  I soldered it on, put 6 volt bulbs in and it works now.  I measured the voltage and get 20.04 volts on all 4 terminals.  The only thing I'm not sure about is when I dead short it, the red light goes on, and the green light stays lit.  Is the green light supposed to go off when the circuit breaker pops?  With the ZW working as it does now, I'm OK with the green light staying on.  I appreciate all the help and suggestions that led to getting the ZW working again.  

Harry736

oops - that wire I resoldered was on the LEFT side, not the right side.

Green light should stay on.

And that fix also solved the smoking wire problem?

Yes, re-soldering that wire and two 6 volt bulbs  has the transformer working correctly.

Thanx to all for the help.

Next problem-electro coupler on SD70 opening up whenever it wants.

Thanks to this forum, I got the ZW and an electro coupler working too.  It was mechanical, not electrical.  I tested it for electrical malfunction by disconnecting it from the MB.  Still opened up randomly. I took the coupler apart, filed as suggested by cjack, and Gunrunner John.  Put it back together with a new rivet and it's all better now.

Boy ..... you guys make me look good! 

IF I AM INCORRECT PLEASE CHIME IN-------Also follow up with tvs's, and also an inline circuit breakers for your ZW. Double check on the forum but I believe this is what I use for protection on my layout. I think its the tvs's which you install on the underside of the track, and a better circuit breaker to protect the transformer. Its been a while since I did this so if I am wrong say something please. FYI thanks for the correction C.W.

Some folks use Zener diodes to replace the rectifier disks in their transformers. I haven't tried it.
I think BryanM is referring to Transient Voltage Suppressors (TVS).

There was a real good thread on upgrading the older zw's,too bad we can't pull it up and use it as a tutorial on this subject,it would have been excellent to add to this post.

I just got an old style ZW as a backup and I'm searching for instructions on what to do to test for proper working order and for upgrade instructions.  Do you have a link to the tutorials you mentioned?  What about a test procedure for a "new to you" ZW?

Thanks