0-27 Curve Track & 260E Train Set

I wouldn't recommend anything tighter than O31.  My 260-series engines operate on O36 FasTrack as a minimum.

Agreed. And those 710 passenger cars are very large.

Thanks for the reply guys, you may have saved me a ton of money.

 Back in the 1930's, when these 260E engines and 700 series cars were produced, was the track that these trains came with 0-31 thru 0-36 back than?

 I also would like to purchase a 263E engine with six wheel tender and (2) #2613 pullman cars, (1) #2614 observation car, and (1) # 2615 baggage car. All these cars are four wheel trucks, also known as " Blue Comet Set" because of the train sets blue color. Would this set also not be compatible with the 027 curves?

 Basically, I should not purchase any Lionel 260 series engines because they would not be compatible with my oval set up that has 0-27 curved track, (I believe the curves are O27, the track is from the fifties).

 I have a Lionel 2023 Steamer and tender, (mine since I was a kid, I now am 56), that pulls a 8 car freight set around these 0-27 curves without any difficulty.

 It is a shame because the 260 series engines and the above mentioned are really very nice looking engines and cars.

Thanks Again,

 John

You could always add an O loop and still get you a 260E...or just switch from 027 to 0 track....

John,

I have a 256 Electric and 3-car passenger set (710s) that I run on my tinplate layout. The track is Lionel tubular but it is 031. They run fine on that.

The 256 was one of the largest O gauge locos made and the passenger cars are also large.

Here's an old pic where you can see the size.

Yes, it would have been O31 or wider diameter.

I am not even sure if the track I have is 0 or 0-27. I am a true novice in model trains and their collecting and operating, never mind track set up.

If I posted a picture of my oval layout would you be able to tell if I had O or O-27 gauge or maybe something different? I possibly might have 0-31 or something less sharp because of the way my Lionel #2023 Steamer/Freight set runs around the with no problems on the curves? I also have a Lionel 254 with (2) #610 Pullmans, and (1) observation car that have no problems with my  track.

 John, that Lionel #256 is the biggest of the big tin plate that Lionel made,and the cars are the same cars I was after only your cars are four wheel and the 260E set I was looking at has the six wheel tender and 700 series passenger cars with six wheel trucks. I also have the Lionel tubular track.

 Dennis, wouldn't going to O gauge from O -27 Gauge give me sharper curves to deal with?

Please bear with me, I never said this was going to be easy. LOL.

Thanks Again,

John

Rice Burner,
   John if you purchase the 263E Engine and 12 Wheel Tender and 800 series rolling stock it will run Great on 036 FasTrack, it will also run on Lionel 031 Conventional Tubular track, however the correct switches that came with the 263E Work Train Set were Lionel 711 (072 type) switches.  I use them with my FasTrack at the present time.  The new 048 & 072 FasTrack Command Control Switches are suppose to accommodate the complete 263E work train also, including the 810 Crane Car, I have not tested this myself yet however, will do so on my next layout.  The original 2600
Rolling Stock was engineered for 031 and larger track also, it runs well on FasTrack, RealTrax & Lionel Conventional Tubular.
PCRR/Dave 



Original 711 Lionel Switches, that still operate perfectly even today.

One thing to remember is that O27 track is widely available with 42" and 54" curves.  You can also find some old Marx track with 34" curves.  I run O27 tubular track on my layout with some of each of those 4 curves.  One mainline's tightest is 34" and the other mainline's tightest is 27", so I'm limited to traditional-sized engines and rolling stock, but that's a limitation I can live with.  Anything with a minimum of 31" runs on my outer mainline.

I your track is O27, it likely has brown ties that are rectangular in shape and closed on the ends.  If your track is tubular O gauge, it likely has black ties that are flared along the sides and open on the ends.

If you don't have examples of each for a side-by-side comparison (there are other distinguishing feats as well, such as tie height and rail height) the above distinctions are probably the easiest way to tell the difference between the two.

You could also Google Lionel O27 track and Lionel O gauge track and probably find images of both types.

Allan, I know that modern tubular track uses brown ties for O27 and black for O Gauge, but all of the post-war O27 track I inherited from my grandfather has black ties.  I have a mix of it with black ties and modern with brown on my layout, and it caused me a big dilemma on which color to buy when I bought additional rubber ties from 3R Plastics.

I took some pictures of my oval track layout on my Christmas train platform with the Christmas tree taken down.

My father made the platform when I was about four years old.

 I have many, many, more tin plate trains in storage, I am quickly running out of room, but I guess there is always room for one more. LOL.

The track has to fit the platform as you can see.

 My track has black ties and the ties are closed on the ends.

Dave, these curves don't look anywhere near as sharp as yours.

Thanks,

John

Here is video of my Karl Bub Of Nuremburg Train, (KBN/KB Toys), getting some track time under the Christmas Tree this year.

Thanks,

John

Ron,

   The 260 & the 263E are completely different engines & Trains, I have the original preproduction 263E Lionel train set, the switches that came with my Fathers 263E work train are the 711 switches pictured in the thread, it is true however that the regular production of these switches did start untill a little later.   The manual Lionel switches you are talking about did come with the 260 as an after market add on.

Allan,

   The original Lionel O Gauge Conventional Tubular track that came with the 263E work train is 036, with Lionel 1st generation 711 Switches.  The 711 switches are 99% metal and the switch controllers are heavy Cast Iron, even the levers.  Built to last for many generations, they definitely have done their job.  The draw back to them is, they take massive energy to operate.  To help counter act this, I installed LED lights both track side and in the controllers.  Notice the massive wires that came with the switches, pictured in the thread. 

PCRR/Dave 

The original 263E Engine & 12 Wheel Tender in Lionel Gray.

John,

Just to close the loop (pun intended) on this, I see one of your questions about size above.

"Dennis, wouldn't going to O gauge from O -27 Gauge give me sharper curves to deal with?"

Actually, it's the opposite. 031 (or O gauge) is a slightly wider curve than O27. The old standard applies, i.e., a loop of eight curved pieces of O27 track yields a circle 27 inches in diameter. An O31 loop is 31 inches.

John

If you have O27 track and not O-Gauge track, you don't need to throw out your O27 track to get broader curves.  Way back when, the curves were 27" and 31" diameters for these two types of track (which still have different heights/profiles).  Today, you can get curves for O27 (which seems like an oxymoron) broader than 27" and for O-Gauge broader than 31".  Just take your track to any hobby shop that specializes in O Gauge railroading and they can show you.

Hi John's Trains,

 Let me try to get this straight,(or curved), the old O Gauge track was 31" diameter and the O-27 Gauge track was 27" diameter, is this correct? If it is, my apologies to Dennis.

 This is a response that I received from a person that is selling a Lionel 260E and tender. The response below is an exact quote from him.

 His quote is: "The only difference between
regular 0 or 027 curves is the height (radius is the same). Wider radius track
is available but thats not what would have came with the set".

Thanks,

John

Rice Burner,

The track in your photos is definitely O27.

That quote about radius is wrong. O gauge is 31 inch diameter while O27 is 27 inch diameter (what you have in the photos).

Jim

He provided you with incorrect information.  See Jim Policastro's post, above, for the correct description of O27 and O gauge curvature.

Some engine's will handle the later Lionel 1122 remote switches versus the 1121's.  I think it is more a case of the chassis clearing the switch motor housing when talking which Lionel engine's will or won't negotiate the 027 switches.  This is probably why Lionel could sell the F-3's in 0-27 sets.  GP-7/9's would have had the same problem and were also used in both 0 and 027 sets.

If you want to stay with the 027 profile track and have the room, Marx 034 track is the same profile. A great odd size to keep in mind when planning.

Steve

I bought a Lionel a set with a Lionel 254 Engine, (2) 610 Pullman cars, (1) 612 Observation Car, I believe the set is #266.

 I have the original box with the original track inside of it. I took a piece of this track,(which has the flanged, unpainted ties), and overlaid it on my platform curve track and indeed the track from the set looks a tad longer, and very, very slightly less sharp than the platform track so I am assuming the set track is 0-Gauge,(31"), and my platform track is 0-27 Gauge,(27"), as previously stated in this tread.

 I do not want to change the track that is on my platform because new track will probably not fit the platform and I do not want to build a new platform because this ones size fits my attic door perfectly when taken apart in two pieces and it fits my living room,(running out of room Quickly), plus this platform and track layout was built by father,(deceased), for my Lionel 2037 Engine and freight set and my Marx M10005 Streamline Set. Yes, it has a sentimental value along with my trains.

 Bottom Line, under the current situation, am I correct I can't run a Lionel 260E Engine and tender, or a Lionel 263E Engine and tender without it derailing, am I Correct? I can't run any 260E Series Engine and tender without it derailing, Correct?

 I do not care about the compatibility of switches.

Thanks

John

John, instead of having two full 027 straight sections on each end you could substitute one full 0 straight and half section of 0 straight.  I think that would keep you on your current table size wise.  If needed just substitute a half straight on the long side as well.

The track diameter is only 4" difference. It should work. Before derailing it would bind in the corners. You can tell binding by the train slowing down.

If you want to use 31 track use 1 full straight and 1 1/2 straight for the width of your layout.

Ron,

   Cast Iron is Cast Iron whether it's die cast or sand casted.  My original 263E work train was never in any Lionel Catalogue predates the 277W sets , the track, switches, old transformer and FWD/REV contoller, along with the uncoupling track & controller, all came with the work train in it's own Lionel wooden box, in which 6, 800 series rolling stock, & the 263E Engine and 12 Wheel Tender were housed.  The paper boxes are long gone now however.  

PCRR/Dave

Dennis,

 Let me see if I got this right.

 I would remove my two O-27 straight track from each end of my loop layout and substitute one O gauge strait along with a half O gauge straight at each end of my loop layout. And if needed, add a half O gauge straight to each of the two straight runs of my loop.

 Are half O straight tracks available?

 The only problem that I see with the above method, if I am interpreting your method correctly, is the possibility of the newly formed large oval overtaking my smaller, inner oval. The straight runs of my larger oval currently runs pretty close to the straight runs of my smaller oval with my current track. It is now not a problem.

Thanks,

John

Go out and buy new Lionel O31 track. It will fit on your doors. If you want to run the 260E upgrade to O31 track. And it will look better. 

To Ron and Dave, I am looking for a final answer to the work train controversy.

Steve - you aren't kidding.  I wish someone would make it today, but I understand the lack of demand and preference for Fast/Real etc. Track.  My layout is all tubular and on one end I had way more space than for 27" diameter but not quite enough for 42".  I found some old Marx 34" and it fit to a tee.  I wanted to have an entire mainline without 27" curves and the old Marx solved the problem.  In other areas, I've put a 42" in front of 27" curves to ease into the tight turn, but I'll have to limit what I run on this mainline.

Frankly, I would try it once and see if it worked before tearing up the old track and buying new. You got nothing to lose. Either it will go, or it won't. Nothing bad will happen, as long as you recognize that it's not working (blatantly obvious!!!) and cut the power.

Don't worry about the "track police" coming out of the woodwork, stuffing a bag over your head, and dragging you off to Siberia.

If you want to get a good idea how O-31 will fit on your platform, you can download SCARM software for free, and lay it out.

Bingo. After rereading through this thread, that's my advice, too.

And, yes, half straight O31 pieces are available.

I am like the Beatle named Mc Carthy, Let It Be, Let It Be! I think I will eventually try it first before making a possible mess out of things.

 If my Lionel 2037 Loco, tender, and 8 freight cars can conquer this curved track without a lick of trouble, I can't see why a Lionel 260E or 263 Engine with a tender and a couple of cars can't do the same.

Bring It On!!