1033 Transformer Causing Electrical Problems?

The shaft assembly the black plastic handle connects to is cast metal.  It is subject to 'zinc pest' rot.  I've had to replace many whistle/direction and voltage shafts on 1033's and other like transformers.

OK, thanks.  Is replacing the shaft pretty straightforward for a guy with basic skills or should I have it done by a professional?

I assume that this is the part (1033-42) Switch Shaft Assembly?

See here and here for exploded views of the 1033 transformer.

After replacing the voltage control shaft, take a piece of very fine emery cloth and lightly burnish the contact arm where it contacts the coil.  Next, lightly burnish the coil windings under the contact arm. This will clean any oxidation off.

After this is done, wipe everything with a rag dipped in Naphtha.

Reassemble the transformer,and it should be working properly again.

Larry

I may have to defer to an expert since I have a vision problem and limited mechanical skills or even put this one on the shelf for now.   Although overall as a newbie I've been happy with the 1033 (until now), perhaps this is a good opportunity to buy a transformer with more power.  

I'd say so. You can likely still use it's constant posts for accessory power. (phase those 2 posts, pick one as common)

Yes, now looking at a totally reconditioned RW (110) watts on eBay but I need to obtain some opinions from the venerable O Gauge forum members before I decide to buy it.

RW is a great transformer and a little bit beefier than the 1033. If you were happy with the 1033, the RW will also satisfy you as it is an upgrade.

The 1033 can be repaired, but economics of hiring out and shipping are not in your favor.

I agree.   I have a local train shop that charges 80 dollars an hour labor even though I would save shipping charges it's still an expensive proposition.  I think the RW is looking better all the time assuming no one thinks its a bad choice.  I only have my starter 4x8 train board so it should be more than capable of handling that assignment.

I love my RW's. For 6 years 1 was enough for a sheet and a half of plywood of 027 track with a couple switches and a few accessories. I bumped up to 2 last year for a 2 full sheet layout, 6 switches, and several accessories

The only larger watt single throttle is the LW.  The RW is in a bigger case and more "husky" overall.  The LW is the coolest though with a glowing voltage dial easily seen at night.

I'm not a fan of the TW/SW knobs and split internals.

 A KW, VW,or ZW has two or more throttles, but if only one throttle is used, all the wattage is available on just one throttle. These will run near anything.

I have one TMCC pulmore that can't be run on a 1033; not enough amperage/watts. It begins blowing the breaker after about 5 laps. A couple others can take a 1033 at full throttle.

(I have 4 1033s, Marx 100w; "big dogs" are a prewar Z (ZW in a prewar package), KW, American Flyer 18b (no whistle use)...among others)

That TMCC loco might work out on a SW if run lite. But an LW or larger would be much better; 2 or 3 diesels with motors?; no problem.

If you are not going to move up to a ZW, I would recommend a KW.  Great transformer with 2 throttles.  I moved from a 1033 to a KW many years ago.  I now have ZW's.

Decisions decisions.  Thanks everyone for the input...now I am thinking transformer like a KW or even a LW might be a better choice so as my involvement in this great hobby grows I will have plenty of power for expansion

The KW is the hidden value of PW transformers, 2/3 the power of the ZW and typically half or even less in price.  It can supply all it's available current to either handle, so you'll be a lot less likely to run out of juice.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The KW is the hidden value of PW transformers, 2/3 the power of the ZW and typically half or even less in price.  It can supply all it's available current to either handle, so you'll be a lot less likely to run out of juice.

I'd much rather use two RW's than one KW.  Much more flexibility, especially if two people are running two trains.

The KW can deliver a lot more power to a single track, that's a bonus in some high current situations.  If the 1033 is marginal and sometimes trips, I'd want to add more then 20 watts to the mix.

bmoran4 posted:

RW is a great transformer and a little bit beefier than the 1033. If you were happy with the 1033, the RW will also satisfy you as it is an upgrade.

The 1033 can be repaired, but economics of hiring out and shipping are not in your favor.

Agree with this.  If you use 022 switches, the 1033 would be a fine fixed voltage source.  Or use it for accessory power.

I've had a number of locomotives than run better with that power increas in using an RW.  The difference between 90 watts and 110 is useful.

I got rid of my ZW and use RW's for the trains because I like having separate work stations.  And I'd rather have separate transformers for accessories.  They can be out of the way and I like to be able to vary voltage at will ather than using any transformer fixed voltage setting.

Of course I'm different from many members of this forum in that my primary model railroading activity is repairing and testing, not actually running trains except around my test layout.

An RW is enough for me to run a train with a set of early postwar F-3's, or my Berkshire.  But I were running something with Magnetraction and a heavy train, the RW could be marginal.  In that case, I'd think about the 125 W LW because I still want one throttle per running location.

If you're running 2 or more medium sized O-27 loops just get a KW. I spent money on another 1033, getting my dad's Type V fixed(which, if it had been fixed correctly, would've been fine-finally got it fixed in late Deember- i can't recall).

I'll leave you with this: When I got my KW, after I passed on a ZW I remember @Adriatic congratulating me but then saying "the 1033 is to the KW what the KW is to a ZW". Within 5 or 6 weeks found an AWESOME deal on a fixed up ZW and bought it. I was lucky because I knew the sellers of both the KW and ZW and knew they had been fixed. I realize that KWs and ZWs are expensive and there's always a fear that it won't work, but in the end if you find a reputable person can test it in person, its worth it.

Well, the die is cast.  Last night I bought a "refurbished" (whatever that means) KW on eBay for an excellent price.  At 190 watts, this transformer will be more than I will ever need to power my trains, now and in the future.  I want to thank everyone for their insights.   This board truly has been a wonderful resource for me as I continue to learn about O gauge trains (two steps forward, one step back LOL).

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The KW is the hidden value of PW transformers, 2/3 the power of the ZW and typically half or even less in price.  It can supply all it's available current to either handle, so you'll be a lot less likely to run out of juice.

I agree completely.  My 1033 has worked without problems since 1951, but when I went to a larger layout with bigger locomotives, I bought a KW.  In fact, I now have two.  They do indeed give the most bang for the buck.

That's good to hear.  I'm happy with my decision and look forward to plugging in my new transformer.

Refurbished should mean new rollers, new wire if needed, checked soldering, check windings, etc.

Warranty?

Regardless, I pop them open and do a visual myself. Check for a seal first or warranty may be void if broken. Ask the sender if you can break the seal to look too. (just get and keep corrospondences about breaking seals in case.)  (I also check my own oil and lugnuts after serviceing and before I drive off in a new car too.  It doesn't kill me 🤔🤔   )

Pull the handles, maybe bulbs, four screws, lift cover.

 Mainly check....#1 that rollers are intact and roll WELL, not sliding. (rollers and pins are cheap, maybe a quarter? So always get extras. (kinda easy, but over setting the pin bends the pin, which is also the roller axle, and they don't roll well on a bent axle. They will tend to turn-skid-turn-skid and that wears them out fast if the pin is bent (really just a tall rivet..some folk just use a cotter pin instead.))

#2 The windings show little wear. Every dent, flat spot, nick, or sawing mark takes from the winding wire diameter, which lowers the amout or power it can flow. Lots of wear means less than 180w.   No discoloration; applies here below too...

#3 Check the roller arms are not discolored from heat (dark, rainbow or red/blue/black discoloring is caused by excessive heat.)

#4 Closed up, plugged in (use a plug strip with off switch/breaker "in case". A KW can weld.)

Give it power and create a dead short between two posts (A&Com/U). Count in seconds how long the breaker takes to trip an compare it to specs. (4-10 seconds... I forget what the KW countdown is offhand.)

If everything is fine your gonna love the power you have now 😘

That's a wonderful dissertation on how to evaluate and service the KW but frankly not my cup of tea.  I don't see well enough to delve into its innards.  Heck it some times takes me 10 minutes just to put my train on the track .properly

Oh well. Chances are still good you can lift more than I can though  

  A few years ago I couldn't lift my GG-1 some days. I can pull up from the ground ok; but in front of me I can't hold ten pounds in two hands for 5 seconds 😞  

Feel better yet? 😂

windhund42 posted:

I agree.   I have a local train shop that charges 80 dollars an hour labor even though I would save shipping charges it's still an expensive proposition.  I think the RW is looking better all the time assuming no one thinks its a bad choice.  I only have my starter 4x8 train board so it should be more than capable of handling that assignment.

$80.00\hr. Where is that?. I've been told I don't charge enough, but $80.00. Are other shops charging this much? I would never dream of charging anywhere near that.

J R Junction in Syracuse NY.  They have a website so you can check them out for yourself but I don't reca!! seeing there any mention of their labor rates

Adriatic posted:

Oh well. Chances are still good you can lift more than I can though  

  A few years ago I couldn't lift my GG-1 some days. I can pull up from the ground ok; but in front of me I can't hold ten pounds in two hands for 5 seconds 😞  

Feel better yet? 😂

We older guys often have health issues, some serious some not so serious.  I'm grateful that I have rediscovered trains now after enjoying my first train from Marx in the mid 1960's.  Everyone here has been so helpful too and that has made all the diffefence

The mention of J R Junction made me realize we may be in the same region. I don't know where in NY you are, but if you find your self closer to WNY than CNY, I would fix your 1033 and/or service your KW for the costs of parts.

I’m glad to see this post. I have been having the same problem with my 1033. I have now decided to switch to a different transformer. But, i think it caused problems with 3 of my engines. My new Williams Pennsylvania S2 is now being sluggish about going into reverse. My Lionel Postwar 224 is having the start stop issues. My Williams FM Trainmaster rear motor will not start up. I was not  experiencing these issues before. Any guidance on how to proceed? Or do I need to put these in the shop?

have been using a KW and it has been flawless.I rebuilt it with new rollers ,diode for whistle etc. Great choice.

rich

bmoran4 posted:

The mention of J R Junction made me realize we may be in the same region. I don't know where in NY you are, but if you find your self closer to WNY than CNY, I would fix your 1033 and/or service your KW for the costs of parts.

I appreciate the offer.  I do go to Niagara Falls from time to time and I used to make business trips to WNY so I do know.the area somewhat.  What town are you in or near?

Blade posted:

I’m glad to see this post. I have been having the same problem with my 1033. I have now decided to switch to a different transformer. But, i think it caused problems with 3 of my engines. My new Williams Pennsylvania S2 is now being sluggish about going into reverse. My Lionel Postwar 224 is having the start stop issues. My Williams FM Trainmaster rear motor will not start up. I was not  experiencing these issues before. Any guidance on how to proceed? Or do I need to put these in the shop?

From what I've learned from my friends here on the forum, it needs servicing for sure.  I've been having electrical problems all winter on my first train board and thought it track or connection related when in fact it may have been the 1033 all along.  I never suspected the transformer because I didn't have enough experience to go down that road.  Stop, start, stop, slowing down, stopping then going in reverse..blah blah blah, may have all been caused by the transformer. 

Here she is, my new rebuilt KW on its way to me from Cincinnati!   

Actually, that puppy has more power per channel then the old ZW's.

As Gun- Runner said don't forget a fast blow 8 amp circuit protector and a TVS Diode.

Have Fun. 

gg1man posted:

Actually, that puppy has more power per channel then the old ZW's.

As Gun- Runner said don't forget a fast blow 8 amp circuit protector and a TVS Diode.

 

Have Fun. 

How do you figure? The smallest ZW can provide all of its power (250 Watts) out a single channel whereas the KW is only 190 Watts.

It is possible that you may be thinking of the VW transformer rated at 150 Watts, but this would be the first time the VW came up in this conversation and thus not necessarily applicable.

windhund42 posted:

bmoran4 posted:

The mention of J R Junction made me realize we may be in the same region. I don't know where in NY you are, but if you find your self closer to WNY than CNY, I would fix your 1033 and/or service your KW for the costs of parts.

I appreciate the offer.  I do go to Niagara Falls from time to time and I used to make business trips to WNY so I do know.the area somewhat.  What town are you in or near?

@windhund42, My email is within the member profile and we can take this private discussion there if you'd like.

windhund42 posted:

J R Junction in Syracuse NY.  They have a website so you can check them out for yourself but I don't reca!! seeing there any mention of their labor rates

My comment s generally pertain to pre-MPC prewar and postwar trains, so ignpore this if your interest is the modern stuff.

I think we should be very careful about whether a repair place is doing modern Lionel or the prewar/postwar era.  If they are not selling parts for that era, it is unlikely that they have repairs to do repair work without a wait.

I just looked through the J R web site and can't find anything that indicates to me that they would be familiar with older Lionel.

I have found that repair of anything made before MPC can be learned by someone like myself who is handy with old fashined tools.  The more modern stuff has electronics that I don't understand at all.

----

On a related subject.  I'm assemblin a list of parts dealers and northeastern region repair shops for a repiar clinic at a New England TCA meet on 4/28.  I'll share it with this forum when I'm done.  In a few days I'll post a preliminary list and ask for those that I have missed.

Basic electronics and electromechanical are not to far from each other in operation.

 Rectifier becomes a diode, a relay becomes a transistor...resistors haven't changed, and capacitors got "super"...not much moves but "low to hi" relays.

You test and replace part, wire/trace, or board. No physical repair beyond that is part of the idea.

  The "opto isolator" & other goodies there to save you sometimes when things don't want to play together.

Chips with many legs are just convenient assemblies of stuff. It doesn't get really complicated until you're looking at matrix chips and even that is just an on & off/0 &1s shifting maze... like using a graph to plot points on a grid.

Eventually these "light weight circuits" can trigger a final command; by say a low volt low amp coil of an electromechanical relay with hi volt hi amp points opening and closing; etc..

In the big scope of things, everything is a variable; changing every trigger, input, output range etc. is doable in a sense. It is so versitile it tends to overwelm some folk and the hard part can be locating "just the right parts" or a "suitable alternative".

After a while the i.d. numbers on things get more familiar and you'd note "families" of similar things with say a variety of voltage or amp options. 

What sort of sucks is the mfg.s don't use one numbering system...but that also points out the minor proprietary differences of each companies component which may or may not make a change to parts of a design.

All that said I like and trust electromechanical/mechanical more for a lot of uses.