12'X18' & 12'X20' TrackPlan with O-72 Route and On30 narrow gauge

If you intend on running equipment that requires O72 curve and intend on storing the m in the yard/turntable you need to have a O72 path into the yard.

Jan

Jan, no the intention is not to have an O-72 yard, that obviously would not fit well in the available space.   Locos that require O-72 are restricted from entering the yard, which makes for interesting operation:  the O-72 locomotive has to be cut-off, and a train pulled or pushed into the yard with a smaller engine.   An O-72 locomotive can be stored in the enginehouse at the bottom of the layout.    

I like the layout

Nice track plan! However I would be willing to sacrifice a yard track to have 0-48 switches if possible. 36 is very tight, even for some Atlas and Lionel Freight cars. 

Jan, your comment got me thinking, and I was able to build a route that is all O-72 to the turntable.   That gives the operator more options for O-72 locos, and I can repurpose the spur to the enginehouse at the bottom of the layout.

OK NS_Trainman, I redid the yard ladder, now with two O-60s and one O-48.  We may have lost some length overall, but able to keep four yard tracks.    What do you think, is this a better compromise?   Now there is no longer any O-36 on the layout, the minimum is O-48.

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Very cool track plan, IMHO.  Good luck!

Ken, 

I like! Now you will have zero problems with equipment. Those yard tracks are still a good length. 

Good Job!

Thanks so much for the compliments and suggestions!  

Access to the two open areas on the left side is by sitting in a rolling chair that is low enough to fit under the layout, so the layout height will be a bit above average to allow this easy access.    Here is where the plan is at now:

Ken- nice plan, I wish I had that much space. One observation though. I don't see a way to get a train from the yard to the outer loop without running over the inner first. If that's what you are going for fine. If it was me, I would want this flexibility so that you don't have to stop one train to move another.  Maybe you could add some turnouts from the top siding in the yard to the main lines. Would give you another way in and out too without always needing the turntable. The top siding could be by-pass track for the main with turnouts at each end as well.

Bob

Nice track plan!

Bob

Bob, I get what you mean, and I was just thinking that a passing siding is one feature I would like to have.   Let me work on that, it looks very close to possible.

Here is the next version following Bob's suggestion about adding a passing siding and access to the yard from the outer perimeter without going all the way around the inside track.   There are now a few places where the roadbed has to be trimmed, generally pretty easy to do.   What do you think?

Ken,

Here are a couple more refinements to your track plan:

1. The entrances and exits to the turntable should be a section of straight track (unknown length, perhaps others can comment).  When an engine enters on a curve it can push the turntable bridge out of alignment.
2. Only the arrival/departure tracks need a way for the engine to escape.  The other tracks in your yard are for storage of cars.
3. You should have an yard lead so as not to foul the main.  I'm surprised that a certain editor who shall remain nameless hasn't chimed in.

Jan

Jan, there is a small section of straight track going to the turntable for all connections, at least 1.75".   That may not be sufficient, but on the other hand, locomotives will be going dead slow through these sections, so for our model trains, I expect this will work.   I have not tested.   I suppose this would depend on how much "play" there is in the gearing or control that might allow the turntable bridge to be pushed by these lateral forces.   An interesting point for further investigation.

The yard lead issue is solved by using the inside route through the junction to the industrial area doing double duty as a yard lead.   That means that trains on the inside route will use the junction to cross over and then cross back if they are running while the yard is being switched.   Actually this would be a fun feature, not a detriment.   But most likely when switching the yard, I will not have trains running on the inside route, just on the outside route - I can't do too many things at once.   I feel this is an acceptable arrangement.   This will just be me running trains, I don't expect a group or club for operating sessions, this is too small a layout for more than two folks at a time, I expect.

On your point #2 above, I  could disconnect the inner yard track connections to the turntable, but nothing would be gained, so for now I will leave it. 

I like it a lot.  Well designed with plenty of options on the main lines.  Ample storage for engines and cars.  Very efficient use of the space available. I give it two thumbs up.   

Nice job Ken.  Looking forward to the build pics. 

Looking good Ken. Still jealous of the space you have.

Bob

Here is the current plan, slightly optimized, with additional scenery.

Thanks again to everyone who helped with suggestions and nice comments!

I admire the Bachmann On30 narrow gauge trains, and thought I would like to see how this looks: a mountain with a loop of On30.

I also decided I would like to service the Menards Power Plant with a siding rather than a spur.

Here is my current plan, extended to 12 X 20.  The extra two feet allowed me to go minimum diameter O-60.  Worth the extra cost to do so.   This incorporates the suggestions above from forum members - thanks!

The yard lead fouling the inner route is now solved, the yard and industry can be serviced without affected either of the main lines.

This looks like a winning plan!

Ken - that is an amazing track plan!  I'm starting to work on one too for a similar space and like to benchmark against what more experienced folks, like you, do.  Probably a dumb question, but where is the yard lead/drill track?

Good luck with the build!

Peter  

Peter, On the left side there are three routes through the junction.   Working from outside in, there is the outer route, the inner route, and then the yard lead/drill track which curves inward toward the industries.  All three routes can go through the junction without interfering with each other.

I will be interested in seeing your track plan.

Ken,

Now I see it - thanks! 

Peter

Looks great Ken. The On30 is a nice touch too. Can't wait to see a video of everything running.

bob

Ken-Oscale posted:

Jan, your comment got me thinking, and I was able to build a route that is all O-72 to the turntable.   That gives the operator more options for O-72 locos, and I can repurpose the spur to the enginehouse at the bottom of the layout.

This is a nice  (12x20)redraw. I might steal it. As I'm starting from scratch (pun intended)this hobby again

Great!   Will you use AnyRail for layout design?  I can provide AnyRail files for any of the versions that you might be interested in.

-Ken

First off, it's not stealing.  I would consider it borrowing :-).  And remember, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.  It just so happens I have about this exact space for a layout in my basement.  I was struggling with how to do an O72 loop the maximum length.  This is it!  I will modify this for my needs but this is a fantastic layout!  In my case I need a mirror of it but the dimensions are nearly perfect.  I will build mine with either Gargraves or Atlas track and Ross Switches.  The turntable is an option that may not make my build.  

My only criticism is a greater than 30" reach on the back and side.  I am a short guy and even 30" is a stretch for me.  The back side looks to be about 42".  I will probably sacrifice some yard for a trap door for access.

Thank you for posting and best of luck on your build!

Tony

Tony, here is my latest 12 X 18 version.   This adds the 3rd route through the junction that allows switching the yard with a lead that extends through the junction to the industry area.   And it has the On30 loop.  Good luck with your design.   If I was not using Fastrack, I like Atlas.   Your design should be easier with the curve diameter on 9" centers (O-45, O-54, O-63, O72) instead of the Fastrack 12" centers.   You might be able to do the design with O-54 minimum where I had to accept some O-48 curves in the two "balloons" at either end of the "inside" route, in order to make if fit in the space.  

I am staying with Fastrack because of the command-control turnouts with integrated switch machines and electronics, and the nice turnout dwarf signals, because I want to be able to switch the turnouts remotely using TMCC/Legacy, thus avoiding the wiring and control panels for turnouts.

I agree with you that the long reach is unfortunate, but I decided to accept it as a compromise.   I plan on having a 5' folding ladder on hand which I can climb up a step and then lean over farther to reach the back area/main lines above the yard tracks.   The Menard's (as you can see I am impressed with Menard's buildings, and already have most of these that I need for the layout) Saurkraut factory at the bottom-right will be on a disconnectable table which I can pull out to reach the area and turnout below the On30 loop.   That should serve!  I wish I could find a place for my Menard's Red Owl grocery store.  The Menard's station and power plant in particular are too cool, with all the LED lights!

I am still playing with and optimizing the 12X18 track plan.   All turnouts are now O72.  So an O-72 locomotive can now go anywhere in the yard and in the industrial area.  I did not anticipate that could be worked-out, but with a lot of experimentation, I was able to make a configuration that worked.  I was able to work in a fifth yard track.

In terms of scenery, my design principle is to create many visual areas that visitors and operators will wish to enjoy.   Starting at the upper right-hand edge, going counter-clockwise, there are these visual areas:

1.  the Lionel barrel loader with hill

2.  The turntable with engine house and "whisker" tracks

3.  The hill with rotating beacon

4.  The yard area

5.  The mainline area behind the yard, with a visual separator of a slightly raised strip with small trees and bushes.  The trains will still be visible, its not a view block, just a visual separator.

6.  The yard throat area with tower #1

7.  The Menard's station and hobby shop, a small town area

8.  the rural farmhouse and pond with stream and tower #2

9.  the Menard's power plant, which is a very prominent structure

10.  the mountain with narrow gauge On30 loop with combined passenger/freight station.  Featuring sheer rock faces.

11.  The industries nestled between arms of the mountain (note the tunnel)

12.  The Menards Saurkraut factory

13.  when in place, the long steel lift-out bridge

Not bad for a small layout of 12 X 18.   A passenger train on the inner route can now pull into the station while another train continues to traverse the inner route, and then pull back onto the  inner route main.

One last comment:  AnyRail layout design software is compatible with Train Player software (through a file export).   Its free to play with for a month.   THere is a learning curve, but it works well.   So I set up two trains to run unattended on each route, and set up a fifth train to do switching and build trains in the yard, then run over to the industrial area and service the industries there, and then return back to the yard.  (the On-30 loop is a sixth train) Fun!   And with Train Player you can test the layout configuration, the track clearances, and just enjoy watching the trains go around for a bit.

Ken,

Good find on a way to run a simulator. It's not a toy, but another tool to confirm the track spacing and operation and get a good feel for the play value.

You should post a tutorial on the export from Anyrail and the import to Train Player.

SCARM and RRT have it built-in, RailModeller does not (yet)

Carl, to use Train Player TrainPlayer from AnyRail follow these steps:

1.  After designing your layout in AnyRail, export your track plan using the "export" function under the "file" tab.  Export to "TrainPlayer".   This creates a .xml file.

2.  From TrainPlayer, use the "import" function and locate and import your .xml file.

That's it!  Add a train and run.

You can save your TrainPlayer files, which save as .rrw extensions.

Both AnyRail and TrainPlayer let you use the software without purchasing.   AnyRail lets you design with up to 50 pieces of track.   TrainPlayer lets you play for 30 days before you have to buy.

Thanks, Ken. I didn't realize that AnyRail was designed with that export type in mind. Sounds easy. I'll have to try it. Look in videos tab for the forum to see a five train sim clip from SCARM. I just video my computer display. Working on a cleaner method.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming "Ken's Layout"

Moonman, I just checked out your layout video.  Cool that you can capture your scarm design in a video.   Nice layout plan!

Great layout! I love how much track and storage space is on this, very efficient. Can I ask what software you used to make this, and if it is available on MacBooks?

Maxrailroad posted:

Great layout! I love how much track and storage space is on this, very efficient. Can I ask what software you used to make this, and if it is available on MacBooks?

No Max, the only game in town for mac is RailModeller. Ken used AnyRail.

Moonman posted:

Maxrailroad posted:

Great layout! I love how much track and storage space is on this, very efficient. Can I ask what software you used to make this, and if it is available on MacBooks?

No Max, the only game in town for mac is RailModeller. Ken used AnyRail.

With the MAC you have 3 options

1 Use virtualization software like VMware Fusion or Parallels OR use BootCamp.  You will need a valid Windows license to install Windows in any case.

2 As Carl posted, RailModeller

3 Find an inexpensive Windows 7 or greater computer that meats the specs of RR Track, SCARM or AnyRail and use that. 

I use a MAC and have a Windows 7 VM that I use RR Track on.  

Tony

Well, here is one more revision.   The motivation was my experience with TrainPlayer, where I quickly realized that the length of my passing sidings did not accommodate the length of train I wanted to run.   On a layout this size, with two trains on each route (the two routes running in opposite direction) a train length of about 8-13 cars (depending on car length) plus a caboose and loco are a good match.   

I realized by running trains virtually with TrainPlayer, that my passing sidings did not accommodate that train length.   So after a number of iterations I came up with this revised arrangement. 

On the left-hand side of the plan, the outside route can use the inside route as its passing siding, and as access to the yard and industries.  That would be a potential bottleneck, except that the inside route has its own very long passing siding:  starting at the turnout at the bottom of the layout, below and left of the power plant;  this passing track runs up and goes beside the depot; and becomes the yard throat; and following the upper yard track toward the turntable;  ending with the crossover back to the inner main track.

With this flexibility and the revised turnout arrangement, it is reasonable to work a train from the yard out to the outside main track, and back in.  Not perfect and it has to cross the inside main of course, but is now workable.

I noticed that individual yard tracks did not hold an entire train of my desired length:  they would have to be broken in two and held on two tracks.   But with only the original four yard tracks, the yard could at best hold two trains, with no free space to work.   So I was able to add two more yard tracks.

Sorry for the long post, one more issue:  this layout is close to the "too much track, not enough scenery" balancing point.   It seems OK to me but feels like its getting too track intense, but I am not sure what feature I would give up.

Comments and suggestions very welcome, thanks for reading.

Very nice design.

Very nice design.  I went through many iterations myself,  I deal only with rapid transit (subways) as they were the only trains I knew growing up, so I am not familiar with turntables, etc., but this design is comprehensive and you can run more than one train I am guessing.  Now the fun part, start to build it.  I like the fact that there are no duckunders as I have.  My only concern is access to the other side of the yard on the mainline at the top.  And I hope you have a TV in the room view-able from your workbench.  That always helps me when I do my work.