Skip to main content

I have an MTH Premier GP40 with Proto-Sound 2 (my only PS/2 engine) product # 20-2754-1 which claims to come from the 2007 Vol1 catalog.  If I remember correctly, I've owned it since approx 2009 but regardless of the purchase date, the engine (and the battery within) is probably about 13 years old. 

Turning it on yesterday I noticed the engine sounds began to play normally at first, but after about 3 or 4 seconds, the volume suddenly lowered itself to less than half of the usual levels. I let the engine sit in neutral for 30 seconds or so and then shifted into forward (I run conventional by the way) only to have the engine completely shut down when power was interrupted to the track. I've seen similar occurrences on my PS/1 engines (although without the volume lowering) which indicates the battery is weak and requires charging. To solve this I typically leave the engine in neutral for about 15 minutes to charge up the battery and then away it goes.

For the PS/2 engine, however, that did not work. Leaving the engine in neutral to charge in neutral for 15 or even 20 minutes did not raise the volume back up to normal levels, nor did it let me shift into forward drive. So I decided to let the engine sit for longer. After about an hour, i suddenly heard the volume of the engine kick back up to the usual louder levels, so I assumed that might indicate the battery was charged again. And it appears it was, because the engine shifted into forwards and back to neutral with no interruptions. The next morning it was still working properly, but I am concerned about the problem cropping up again.

So this brings me to my question:

1 - Is that typical behavior for when a PS/2 battery it low on power? Or is the battery itself dying and in need or replacement? I found it very odd that it took a full hour to charge the battery instead of the usual 15 min or so that it takes the PS/1 engines. Also, I had run the engine just a few days prior with no issues so it was not sitting for an incredibly long time without power, which is also odd.

2 - How do you even get at the battery to replace it if necessary? Unlike my PS/1 engines that have the battery in a very accessible location, the battery for this engine is buried under the board and wires of the internal components. Is there some trick to getting it out? or do i really have to un-screw the brackets holding both the board and smoke unit to the frame before getting access it?

3 - I've looked a bit into the issue here on the forums and have seen many people recommending to replace batteries with Supercapacitors or the BCR2 device (which is just a SuparCap packaged and ready for Proto-Sound applications as far as I know). Is this a good option if the battery is actually dead, or even close to dead? What are the pros and cons of having a BCR2 instead of the standard battery?

Thanks in advance!

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

First off, run, don't walk to the nearest store and get a new battery.

Seriously, it's certainly time to replace the old battery.  For a 3V board, you can cobble together a supercap replacement easily.

 

So I'm guessing that was not normal behavior for the battery? Didn't think so.

Is there a specific MTH battery that must be used for this engine? I know it's not the standard 9v form PS/1 engines, but form what I've seen there are a few different types of PS/2 batteries available. I don't wanna get the wrong one by accident.

As for the supercap, do you recommend that instead of a new battery? What about the BCR2?

The BCR2 is exactly the same as a 5V supercap and a connector.  So yes, the BCR2 will work fine, just costs about four times as much as the cap and connector.

Well since none of the train stores in my Country seem to have a spare Proto-Sound 2 battery in stock and ordering one from the US to Canada will cost more in shipping than the product is worth, I suppose I'll go with making my own Supercap.

A 5.4v Supercap is the correct component, right? I assume if the capacitor has a higher 'f' value it just means that it will store more power, but what is the ideal f rating to get? I've seen some people using f1.5, some using f2.5.

And finally, I still can't figure out how to safely get the battery out form under the Proto-Sound board. The plastic battery holder seems to be glued to the metal frame of the engine, and the electronic components above it do not see to have an obvious way to unfasten and move to gain access.IMG_20200822_130738

Attachments

Images (1)
  • IMG_20200822_130738

UPDATE:

Managed to get the battery out by taking apart practically all of the internal components. Clipped the sides of the plastic battery holder so that I can slide a new battery / capacitor in its place without having to disassemble the whole engine again. Put it all back together again and the engine still works, so fortunately I didn't pinch any wires.

But I still need a replacement for the battery. Nowhere near me seems to have any Supercaps in stock so I guess I'm heading online. I just need clarification on the capacity (f1.5 or f2.5) and also if the voltage needs to be within a specific range, for example is a 10v capacitor too high?

The Blue MTH AA batteries are very good quality, even at 13 years old.  The green AAA, not so much.  I've had very good luck charging the blue ones for 8 hours using the MTH external charger and they hold a charge for months.    You can check the voltage at the charging port.  Anything above 2.4 volts indicates a good charge (mine are typically around 2.-5-2.6v).  You can either use a BCR, or I have installed over a hundred Kruta cordless phone batteries (AA and AAA NiMh), available on Amazon in PS2 3v locos.  The only thing you have to do is change the plug on the end to the type on MTH's  battery (just cut the old one off and solder and heat shrink the leads onto the new battery).  For PS1 and PS2 5v boards, the Tenergy low self discharge 8.4v rechargeable works very well (have used hundreds of them in locos successfully).

Low volume is the processor protecting itself.  Can be because of such a dead battery the 5V power supply has drooped too low near 2.5V.

But you also can have a faulty power supply board that is not operating the charging system properly.  Measure the voltage of the battery with a pair of light bulbs plugged in.  Can the battery light them, and read 2.5V?  If not replace.

You will get the same volume drop as the BCR charges.  Should come back to normal once the BCR charges above 2.5V.  If it does not, the power supply board is bad and needs to be replaced or repaired.  G

Thanks for the help everyone! 

Although my local train store didn't have any PS/2 batteries in stock, their technician might be able to get one for me. Alternatively, I can put together a Supercap if I cant get the battery. I'll keep this post updated if and when I need to go that route.

Several days later and the old battery seems to be still holding it's charge, so at least I can use the engine until I get a replacement. 

Add Reply

Post
This forum is sponsored by MTH Electric Trains
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×