ISO Experiences w/ Wago Lever Nuts

Small wire connections (less than 18 ga) are difficult.   I use Ideal (71B) small grey twist nuts, which may require doubling over the twisted wire before the nut is installed. 

If anyone has access to a smaller mechanical connector, please post a link.  Lever connectors pictured (IMO) are designed for solid wire.  Small stranded wire, switch motors, control pieces, detail lighting, etc. may not work well with these connection devices. (IMO)

I found that modular wiring was a good bit easier when the train table parts were vertical.  (Safety meeting of the day).

Wiring for (7) turnouts, through/out push buttons for DZ1000 switch motors.

End of the day, twist nuts properly installed, even with these very small wire connectors, your fingers will be stiff and sore. IMO, Mike CT.

Mike,

First, thank you for your reply.

Unfortunately, my own experience with wire nuts has been nothing short of awful.  They never stay on, the wires never stay connected, and they leave me with absolutely no confidence in their effectiveness.   The fault is mine.

You're a professional electrician and you know what you're doing with them.  Obviously, I do not.  I think I would rather stick pins in my eyes than use them.  There has to be another way.

What do you think of the Ideal connectors?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Id...k-30-1034P/202894312

George

My age (71), retired, for some reason the grey hair, has dedicated my expertise to trouble shooting, all that doesn't work, or work properly.  There is a lot of that out there.  Number one problem, is poor splices, connections. I always liked the Buchanon C24 tool and the steel crimp connectors.  Unfortunately, I was one of the few who used this system until they were no longer available.   I'm good to go until check-out day, I found another tool, on the shelf, at the shop.   Unfortunately the steel crimp rings are gone, I now use copper (2006) which requires wire twisting.

Note that Buchanon/Ideal supplies a tool with each bag of twist nuts, for us, with lack of power, in the old fingers.

@G3750 posted:

What do you think of the Ideal connectors?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Id...k-30-1034P/202894312

George

Looks like they're really designed for solid wire and not for the finer wires that you'll encounter wiring switch machines, etc.  Note the strand count, they're obviously wanting solid wire, just trying to sell the product even if you're stubborn.

• Solid wire range: #20 - #12 AWG
• Stranded wire range: #16 - #12 AWG (≤ 19 strand) and #18 AWG (≤ 7 strand)
• Tin bonded stranded wire range: #18 - #14 AWG (≤ 19 strand)

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Looks like they're really designed for solid wire and not for the finer wires that you'll encounter wiring switch machines, etc.  Note the strand count, they're obviously wanting solid wire, just trying to sell the product even if you're stubborn.

• Solid wire range: #20 - #12 AWG
• Stranded wire range: #16 - #12 AWG (≤ 19 strand) and #18 AWG (≤ 7 strand)
• Tin bonded stranded wire range: #18 - #14 AWG (≤ 19 strand)

Yeah, I was afraid of that.  Wishful thinking, I suppose.

And yeah, I am stubborn.    What of it? 

The situation makes me want to twist wires together and cover them with electrical tape.  Yuck!

Any other ideas, anyone?

George

I bought a few of the Wago Lever Nut kits from Amazon. They have 2 to 5 wire connection lever nuts. They're rated for #12 AWG to #24 AWG wire. They have a carrier for multiple lever nuts to facilitate mounting. I haven't used any yet, but I expect they will be easy to use and reliable. Pictured here is the 2 wire lever nut.

@G3750 posted:

Yeah, I was afraid of that.  Wishful thinking, I suppose.

And yeah, I am stubborn.    What of it? 

The situation makes me want to twist wires together and cover them with electrical tape.  Yuck!

Any other ideas, anyone?

George

Unfortunately that is not what the instruction for installation detail.  Wires are to be grouped, all ends at the same point.  Twist nut is installed until the wire insulation, beyond the twist nut, is twisted, and the nut will twist, no more.  Aspirin, Advil works well at the end of the day.    Somewhere in the instructions, or on line, the MAXIMUM/Minimum,  number of wires, that can be connected with a wire nut is listed.

George,

I noticed it listed Vineland Store. Are you a South Jersey Boy? I am on the West side of the state on the bay/DMB area. Actually glow in the dark in my area, LOL. I thought I was alone down here!

Curtis

@CurtisH posted:

George,

I noticed it listed Vineland Store. Are you a South Jersey Boy? I am on the West side of the state on the bay/DMB area. Actually glow in the dark in my area, LOL. I thought I was alone down here!

Curtis

Curtis, 'fraid you're glowing in the dark by yourself.  I'm in Western PA. 

George

@G3750 posted:

Curtis, 'fraid you're glowing in the dark by yourself.  I'm in Western PA. 

George

That Vineland Address threw me of as Vineland is 30 minutes east from me.

Curtis

they make a solder/solderless connector now. I bought some but have yet to try them. Similar to the crimp style except you just hold a match or lighter under it and that generates enough heat to melt the solder ball and the shrink wrap on the ends.

For one-to-one wire connections, I use a simple butt connector and a pair of heavy duty linesman's pliers to squeeze the bleep out of them. Like Curtis said, they also make a new solder/solderless butt connector.

For multiple wires, I use a terminal block like from Del City and other electronic supply stores. 

For dangling wires, buy some plumber's tape at one of the big box hardware stores. It's thin, but stiff, plastic tape about 3/4" wide with holes in it and used in plumbing to hang pipes from, etc. You can cut a small piece, say 5" - 6" long and press it up against the dangling wires and up to the underside of the layout and staple each end of the cut tape to the underside of the layout with a heavy-duty stapler and it will hold the wires up. You can put a dozen up in just a few minutes. In fact, most of the time I don't even bother with the second staple - the tape is strong enough to hold the wires from one end. Much easier, in my opinion, than using cable/wire clips. Just make sure not to staple through the wires !

@CurtisH posted:

That Vineland Address threw me of as Vineland is 30 minutes east from me.

Curtis

What Vineland Address?

George

All,

I'm looking at these in both the 2-wire and 3-wire flavor.  I'll let you know what I think.

https://www.showmecables.com/u...ed-3-wire-gel-filled

George

George, My dad used those https://www.showmecables.com/u...ed-3-wire-gel-filled when he was a cable splicer for the telephone company (he retired in '92)  I started working at the same telco at age 40 in '96.  I didn't know they make them any more.   Of course at the telco, it was all solid wire.  I have a few still from Dad's stash that seemed to be in every pocket when he came home.  I have not tried them for stranded. 

@Oman posted:

I bought a few of the Wago Lever Nut kits from Amazon. They have 2 to 5 wire connection lever nuts. They're rated for #12 AWG to #24 AWG wire. They have a carrier for multiple lever nuts to facilitate mounting. I haven't used any yet, but I expect they will be easy to use and reliable. Pictured here is the 2 wire lever nut.

I bought a few of the Wago Lever Nuts for my larger gauge track feeds, and they seem to hold fine, although they are a dickins to throw the lever if you have arthritis.  Advil again!  I did not buy any for smaller gauge liek the DZxxxx products I have with the wires still loose.

Those button connectors are not foolproof. It's easy to have one wire slip back when inserting others, and they aren't reusable if you have to remove a wire to work on the accessory .

I've used 3M Scotchlock connectors in my other hobby with great success.  They're kinda big, and you need the right pliers to clamp them (don't try with normal pliers) but NO stripping, No twisting, PERMANENT connection (you have to cut them off if you don't want them anymore, so leave a bit of extra wire) and waterproof and bulletproof.  They make for inline (2 wires) and branch (3 wire).  Just stick two ends of the wire all the way in and clamp. Done.

The lever nut connectors work in a similar way, but use a lever instead of a permanent button.  They're larger, and way more expensive than Scotchlock though. 

https://www.specialized.net/3m...016dq-RoCI0EQAvD_BwE

George, When I clicked the link and scrolled to the top it listed Vineland as the local store.

@G3750 posted:

What Vineland Address?

George

When I clicked the link and scrolled to the top it listed Vineland as local store. Evidently it is taking me to the site live and listing it as my local store. DUH!

Curtis

I use these, there are two, three and five wire connectors.  All of my connections under the table are done with these.  I have used well over a couple hundred.  I have about 30 Ross switches all wired this way.

https://www.newark.com/wago/22...mp;mckv=sqXCaV1K2_dc|pcrid|434136793605|plid||kword||match||slid||product|45M7284|pgrid|100464452786|ptaid|pla-903350906313|&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-Shopping-NewStructure-Top-Products

I've used them and like them. I get mine on Ebay. I forget the sellers name. But i don't know how they'll work on small wire. I used them to wire my hobby building. They worked well with stranded wire as well as solid.

@G3750 posted:

All:

I think I'm done with Euro-style terminal blocks, maneuvering under the layout to hold wires in place while I screw them in place, and trying to figure out shoddy connections.  The thought of making over 1,000 of these types of connections makes my head spin.    I've read the previous threads on these connectors and want to give them a try, but have some specific questions.

To answer the question specifically, I have had excellent experience with the Wago Lever Nuts when used according to their specifications for wire type and size. Having said that, many of the "Wago" connectors offered online are counterfeits that do not work well, particularly as regards holding larger sizes of solid wire.

As a general comment, I have found that any genuine, UL listed connector works well when used within its ratings. However, between mis-application and counterfeit parts from cheep online suppliers I do not doubt the many tales of woe I see here. I note particularly crimp connectors; as often as not I see hobbyists using the wrong connector type with an inappropriate wire and crimp it incorrectly with the wrong tool, with the expected result. Of course, the counterfeit connectors with thin, soft metal don't help matters either.

To sum up -

• Use genuine parts - They won't be free
• Follow the instructions - Don't guess, don't improvise
• Use connectors strictly in accordance with their ratings

@G3750 posted:

All:

1. How well do these work with small wires like those used in the Z-Stuff components,
2. Do these connectors come in multiple configurations?
3. How do you mount these to plywood bench work?  (I hate dangling wires).

I have used hundreds of the Wago lever nuts.  Usually I am using these with wires 18-14 gauge. Whenever possible, I also use Ferrules on the wire ends. It makes installation super easy.

However, in response to your questions

1 Wiring Z-Stuff, after trying several options I ended up soldering and shrink-sleeving the joints.
2 There are numerous configurations. I have 2-5 position Lever Nuts in my electrical parts box.
3  I don't mount these to the plywood. If they are hanging, I just tie-wrap the wire bundle.

I wouldn't call the terminal blocks you are using "Euro-style". FWIW, I don't like that style of terminal block either.

This is a DIN style (Euro) terminal block. They are excellent. AND you can get them that would be better suited to the smaller wires you are dealing with.

I agree with Gilly. The DIN style blocks are excellent for smaller wires. I use them for connecting all my 25 Fastrack turnouts. The plastic Euro style strips’ set screws will actually cut small wires in two or miss them completely. The DIN style clamps the wire for a positive connection. The Wago clamps the wire, also, and work well. I usually glue them to the benchwork to make it easier to open and add or change wires.

All of my wires are home runs to 16 MTH terminal blocks in panels around the layout.  The terminal blocks are mounted on a roll out shelf with extended drawer glides,  Wire bundles have a drop loop under the shelf to allow roll out.

All crimp terminals are also soldered.

This all gets to be a bit dusty these days with my growing fleet of on board battery R/C motive units.

Now that I walk around with the trains the Tortoise controls are on location.

Good thread and very interesting details.  If I may resurrect a few questions.... and thanks in advance for comments:

@Mike CT: What is the grey covered wire you used in the picture below?

@Gilly@N&W: what tool / method do you use for the ferrules you mention?

@Jeff the coaster guy: I assume you used CAT5 wire or similar. is there a reasonably priced crimper for the scotchlok connectors?   The Kleins all seem to be $30.

@John H posted:

I agree with Gilly. The DIN style blocks are excellent for smaller wires. I use them for connecting all my 25 Fastrack turnouts. The plastic Euro style strips’ set screws will actually cut small wires in two or miss them completely. The DIN style clamps the wire for a positive connection. The Wago clamps the wire, also, and work well. I usually glue them to the benchwork to make it easier to open and add or change wires.

John,

I too, have had less than satisfying experiences with the Euro style devices.  They DO miss the small wires altogether at times.  I had no idea that they could cut them, though.

Thanks,

George

@Gilly@N&W posted:

I have used hundreds of the Wago lever nuts.  Usually I am using these with wires 18-14 gauge. Whenever possible, I also use Ferrules on the wire ends. It makes installation super easy.

However, in response to your questions

1 Wiring Z-Stuff, after trying several options I ended up soldering and shrink-sleeving the joints.
2 There are numerous configurations. I have 2-5 position Lever Nuts in my electrical parts box.
3  I don't mount these to the plywood. If they are hanging, I just tie-wrap the wire bundle.

I wouldn't call the terminal blocks you are using "Euro-style". FWIW, I don't like that style of terminal block either.

This is a DIN style (Euro) terminal block. They are excellent. AND you can get them that would be better suited to the smaller wires you are dealing with.

Tom,

Thanks for the info and advice.  I believe AllElectronics.com refers to those as "Euro" style blocks.  I am aware of the DIN blocks you posted, but didn't know they could be used for smaller gauge wires.  I will investigate them.

George

"Is there a reasonably priced crimper for the scotchlok connectors?   The Kleins all seem to be $30."

I would be very interested in what folks use to crimp Scotchlok connectors.

George

I have always used the 2 x 12 Euro style connectors for 20 awg and lighter wiring, typically for switches and signal wiring, including Z-Stuff. I like the fact that you can make changes, and add wires without having to cut a crimp connector off and start all over. Plus I like the fact that the screws have a raised guide collar around them so the screwdriver can't slip out and cause damage. They are easy to cut to the length you need, plus they can be mounted anywhere that's handy with #4 round head screws. For me they have worked really well. Occasionally for joining only a couple of small wires I have used the small gray twist connectors, and they are ok, even for joining stranded to solid, if done carefully.

For heavier 18 to 12 awg I use Curtis barrier type terminal strips with crimp connectors, and stranded wire only. I would have used MTH terminal blocks had they been around at the time I wired my track. For track power drops I have always used Mar type twist connectors and they have caused zero issues.

I bought a bunch of the wago lever connects a couple of years ago but have not used them. I have no doubt the din connectors would be great with small stranded wire, but I have not used them. The good thing is the low voltages we work with in train world don't require meeting code, but you still need to know what you are doing, use wire heavy enough for the load, and fuse/breaker accordingly. Just my nickels worth!

Rod

@Mike CT: What is the grey covered wire you used in the picture below?

Houston wire and cable.  3 conductor 22 gauge Shielded.  I also have a 12 conduct, non-shielded.   Project was a sophisticated heating system with a lot of automatic zone control  VVT, or VAV, for those familiar with large building HVAC control   

Crimp tool (s)  Buchanon C-24 tool.

Also Klein 1006, which has two dies. 22 to 14 gauge, 12 and 10 gauge.  Klein 1006 is listed for non-insulated crimp-on spades, and eyelets.  End of day, tool check is important.   Amazing how tool cost, (all cost), have increased.

I have used the gray Wago lever locks for both my home and trains. I have been able to get them to clamp down on both 14 gauge sold wire, the sort used on a  an TPC400, and the size wire for the data cable DSUB9 on the Command Base. And hook up multiple TPCs with a five slot pair. I switched to blue Power Masters, have yet to sell the TPCs (actually IC Control units).

I just ordered some of the smaller clear ones in an attempt to make life easier converting a full length vista to LEDs.

Our house is built in 1962, the electrical boxes are not deep, I can have a hard time getting a modern dimmer or WiFi switch and those gray connectors in the same box; if the box is 2x2 size, one electrical switch needs to be shallow depth and push the connections to that side. Give up on a handibox, just go with wire nuts.