My Lionel brick quit. trying to change inputs on my TIU didn't realize that I was not on the lug next to the other terminal it caused a short that I didn't realize. No power out and breaker wont reset. What can I do?
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So...no response yet. I’m wondering if it has a hardware fuse in the primary. Anybody remember?
There is a fuse in the primary windings, I don't know if it's accessible.
One of the transformers had a primary fuse imbedded in the transformer winding. I couldn't remember if that was the one. Since the breaker ckt is in the secondary, measuring the primary impedance with an ohmmeter might tell something if there's a blown fuse in the primary.
The older 180W brick had pretty big flaw, the electronic circuit breaker ran off the 18V output, so if you turned the brick on while the output was solidly shorted there was no 18V and the "breaker" (NC relay) didn't operate! I did that to mine and it blew out the power switch, there was a long thread about this 6 - 7 years ago. There was no other damage, just the power switch; there may well be a primary fuse, but it did not blow in my situation. I replaced the switch and the brick went back into service.
Now that I think about it, I believe another forum member reported the failed switch after energizing into a solid short, and, not believing it, I successfully tried to duplicate the failure as a "science project."
I have no idea how the newer 180W bricks are built.
I don't know the dates that my PH180s were made. I have four and the first two were bought way before the next two recent ones. They have performed perfectly and haven't failed. Well, one did have a defective LED in the switch that I replaced.
I have had several shorts on my layout. Even when the short was present, the brick did what it should do. So I'm interested in what happened here as I didn't see it on my layout. Electrical performance always interests me. I don't fully understand it. That may add to the fun?
I remember the thread about the dead short, maybe a reason to have a 20A fuse in series with the brick. I'm pretty sure that with a dead short that the brick will cook a 20A fast blowing fuse, the 100W MTH Z-1000 can blow the TIU 20A fuses under the same circumstances.
@Engineer-Joe posted:I have had several shorts on my layout. Even when the short was present, the brick did what it should do. So I'm interested in what happened here as I didn't see it on my layout. Electrical performance always interests me. I don't fully understand it. That may add to the fun?
Joe, I'd guess the shorts are not right at the brick and the voltage drops to the short were enough for the brick electronics to be able to function and pick the relay.
@Engineer-Joe posted:I don't know the dates that my PH180s were made. I have four and the first two were bought way before the next two recent ones. They have performed perfectly and haven't failed. Well, one did have a defective LED in the switch that I replaced.
I have had several shorts on my layout. Even when the short was present, the brick did what it should do. So I'm interested in what happened here as I didn't see it on my layout. Electrical performance always interests me. I don't fully understand it. That may add to the fun?
In the vast majority of cases you would never notice this situation, it only occurs when you have a very solid short right at the output of the brick before the brick is energized. If the short occurs after the brick is powered up, there is no problem. If you have almost anything else, TIU, Powermaster, a good length of wire, derailment, etc. between the brick and the track it would add enough resistance to let the breaker function upon power-up.
I mention this only because the OP seems to indicate that he had a solid short at the output of the brick.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I remember the thread about the dead short, maybe a reason to have a 20A fuse in series with the brick. I'm pretty sure that with a dead short that the brick will cook a 20A fast blowing fuse, the 100W MTH Z-1000 can blow the TIU 20A fuses under the same circumstances.
Joe, I'd guess the shorts are not right at the brick and the voltage drops to the short were enough for the brick electronics to be able to function and pick the relay.
I think the "official" Lionel designs that connect to the brick all have some fuse or current limiting feature so you would never see this issue.
You're probably correct, I know that they have a lot of their lead sets with fuses in them.
Hi all, just following up. This leaves me wondering. I disassembled the brick. I could not find any burned components. I checked the primary and secondary circuits, All working but nothing out from the relay. I can't explain it but I came back later and did some more circuit testing and everything was working again. I tested it on the layout and it performed well. Today I put everything together and it still works. Only the led in the power switch doesn't work. I'm still wondering. I did order a new brick yesterday morning.so I have a spare.
