180 watt power brick

Resetting the breakers didn't do anything? They are fast acting, so if you still have a short when you cycle the power, they will trip instantly.

What Laidoffsick said. I haven't heard of any of these failing? They are a pretty solid device as a rule and very well thought of for layout power. Two failing at one time is really odd and I would guess that would be very unlikely.

If the breakers won't reset try disconnecting the PH-180s from the track and reset them again. If they now reset, you have a problem with your track or wiring somewhere. That will have to be found and corrected in order for the PH-180s to be able to work properly again and power the track.

I've done all that.  When completely removed from track plugged in and tested nothing at all.  Little orange light comes on but no output.  Shifting another brick over power right out to track.  I had three engines on that track when it happen.  Two Lionel TMCC GG1s and vision line CC2.  When I got juryrigged power to track all three came on with sound with no action from remotes?  Nothing at all sound starts and all three just sit there now.  I've reset, reassigned, reset to factory as per instructions.  I'm. Just really baffled.  I've been running these trains on this setup for years.  Any other ideas.  I do appreciate your responses.

If you get sound on track power up, there's no Legacy signal. The sound should not start until you address each engine and start them up. Thats a signal issue, not a power issue.

Well they are the only engines doing it, the other 25 engines are working properly.  This occurred when the bricks failed.  When I hurt rigged two other bricks in to bring up power that's what they have done.  Moved to another area on layout power then sound starts.  Nothing even resetting.  Responds to nothing.  An engine next to it works.  It's just so isolated to that one area.  The other 8 bricks are fine and running no problems.  I've been running it for a year as is.

Also on the fixed one output side of the affected track some plastic began to melt slightly and black wire to the board is fried.  The other three channels are working fine and the fuse for fixed one never blow.

Well you confused me because you say you moved it to another area on the layout and no response but an engine next to it works. With the same bricks?

You need to isolate the problem. Same spot on the track, same brick, and try different engines.

I can't imagine blowing 2 bricks and 3 engine boards all at the same time.

Output side of track??? Black wire to board??? I'm really confused now.

Are you referring to a DCS TIU? 

No those bricks are dead no output.  So in my yard not the mainline they were on that is the start up they are now doing.  Even on the same track where it happened with two different bricks those three come on like that no response.  I moved another unaffected engine to that spot and it works fine.  So the bricks are dead and the three engines that were on the track when the failure occurred are doing the sound instantly and responded to nothing ever resetting in program mode.  That track has been running for a year with no issues great steady power.

Yes, I apologize for being confusing.  The out put side fixed one on TIU.

Are your bricks (or some of them) several years old?  In one production lot the output polarity was reversed.  So you might want to check one against all the others with a meter.

Jan 

Ohh ok I will.  I just don't understand how it would start out of nowhere after working for so long.  Is there anything that can be done to repair them?  Or am I up a river, lol?

I am also confused here, you lost me. But if you have a TIU that the outputs were melting on, open it up and check for loose connections on the banana jacks. Some of these did not have lock nuts and some folks were having problems with loose connections melting things. Check and tighten each one and add lock nuts if there are none. Be careful not to over tighten them and strip or break the jacks. If you have more than one TIU do the same to all of them.

The PH180 brick has an electronic circuit to operate the circuit breaker.  I've seen those fail, and I've been able to repair them in some cases.

Yikes! John, in the circuit for the PH180 you just posted, are the outputs of the two op-amps really tied together, U1a and U1d, in the lower left corner?

Apparently, they are connected that way.   I didn't draw this, but I believe Dale Manquen has actually analyzed the circuit operation in a thread somewhere here.  Now that you point it out, it is a little odd...

I will do the checking of the locknuts thanks.  At the moment I bypassed that channel for know on the TIU.  Now going thru variable 2, I have two bricks putting out 18 volts each.  It now shows 40 at the track section it powers.  This is the same section that went down.  The 40 volt reading  starts at the output side of variable 2.

Sounds like a brick is out of phase, I'd fix that before you proceed!

Bricks are out of phase but why are you using 2 bricks in one channel anyway? Thats 20 amps in that power district. You're asking for trouble like that.

How do I have enough power to run my double headed passenger trains?  One brick isn't enough always pops the circuit breaker on the brick. 

How many are you running on the same block?  Lots of cars?

I've check phase.  Not the issue.  Even with one brick into variable 2 the output with 18 volts in, at the output side terminals its 41 volts.  Track is completely clear nothing on it.

Eliminate the TIU from the picture. Run the brick direct to the track to isolate a possible TIU issue.

How big of a train are you running? 2 engines with smoke is only about 3 amps, a bit higher if there are grades on the layout. Your car lights must not be LEDs.

Converting your passenger cars to LEDs would be a good idea, instead of running 20 amps to your track.

Since I've run two VL-BB locomotives with a 40 car freight on one 180W brick, it's hard to believe you need more than 10 amps on the track!  The VL-BB can draw up to 4 amps by itself, four smoke units, two sound systems, and a lot of weight to haul around.

If you have a double-headed consist that needs more than 10 amps, you need to see why that is happening, not connect welding currents to the track.

If someone ever gets the energy, maybe we could check the component values.   I was able to fix one of these using that diagram as a guide, so it's not too far off.

Bryan,

The TIU should have no more than 10 amps through each channel.  Using two PH180s into one channel will burn up that channel, as you have found out.

As many above have stated, 10 amps is enough to run most consists.  I personally have two passenger consists that have three powered engines and many passenger cars with non-LED lighting and each pulls enough power to open the PH180's breaker.  So I run two PH180s through a Lionel TPC400 which provides up to 20 amps but still maintains 18 VAC.  Because the TIU can't take more than 10 amps, I have set up the TIU in passive mode (see diagram).  This was a lot easier to do than replace all the incandescent lights with LEDs (sorry John).

As mentioned, 20 amps is a lot of power for our trains.  To protect them I use a very fast, multi-amp setting, electronic CB called a PSX-AC set to open at 15 amps.  This worked perfectly on my old layout and it is what I am also wiring into my new one (hopefully the Legacy 180 PM will be out soon to replace the TPCs).  This is a complex setup and I recommend it only if you feel you really need more than 10 amps to the track.  You only need one power setup like this per loop, which may be easier than the multi power setups required for the power districts used by others.  I think power districts would be preferred if you have no consists pulling more than 10 amps.

Anyway, if you want more than 10 amps to the track, below is my recommendation.  You will need to control your conventional engines through the TPC, not the TIU, since power no longer goes through the TIU.  I personally would not try this setup without the PSX-AC to provide the needed protection for the higher amps.

CAPPilot posted:

 This was a lot easier to do than replace all the incandescent lights with LEDs (sorry John).

If that were the only reason for replacing the bulbs, I'd probably agree.  However, there are a lot more advantages when switching to LED lighting.

• Cooler running.
• Even lighting.
• No flicker running.
• Adjustable intensity.