1998 mohawk with pulmore motor, sluggish/stalling out

One fine engine. Check for a bind, bad connection. Also the turns on the layout  look tight, could it also be bad track?

Doesn’t sound like it has a Pittman motor. Do you mean Pulmor motor?…did you happen to take pictures while you had it apart?…….if this locomotive is stock original, with an AC Pulmor motor, suspect the grease in the gear box has hardened up due to age. A complete and comprehensive servicing, including a complete tear down of the gear box, with cleaning of the worm shaft bearings, and proper lube of everything that moves or rotates is paramount, and should get you back in revenue service….

Pat

Cleaning the wheels and pickup roller may be a good place to start.

Take a look at the commutator. If it's not shiny and clean, like new copper, that might be part of the problem. Check the brushes while you're at it.

@harmonyards posted:

Doesn’t sound like it has a Pittman motor. Do you mean Pulmor motor?…did you happen to take pictures while you had it apart?…….if this locomotive is stock original, with an AC Pulmor motor, suspect the grease in the gear box has hardened up due to age. A complete and comprehensive servicing, including a complete tear down of the gear box, with cleaning of the worm shaft bearings, and proper lube of everything that moves or rotates is paramount, and should get you back in revenue service….

Pat

You are 100% right, pulmor, not pittman!

I figure your quite right, 25 years does a lot to a motor!

Do you know of any how to manuals or videos?

I have one of these as well.  Not a great runner, but it does get a little better as it breaks in.  Check for binding, and ensure everything is well lubed.  I also had to shim the motor a tad, as the geometry between the motor shaft and universal joint on my engine was just a little off.  Yours seems ok, as mine wouldn’t even move without the shim.  Also found that this engine tends to run a bit smoother and faster under TMCC at around 19 to 20 volts.  Don’t understand it, but the loco just seems to run better than at 18v.  Still a fun engine to enjoy.

@miller3 posted:

You are 100% right, pulmor, not pittman!

I figure your quite right, 25 years does a lot to a motor!

Do you know of any how to manuals or videos?

The Greenberg’s service manual for MPC/LTI era products has a breakdown for Mohawk 6-18009. That Mohawk is extremely close in construction to your 6-18064 Mohawk, and can be used as an assembly guide.

More than likely, the gear box needs servicing badly. The grease Lionel used on these models turns to concrete with age. I’m surprised it’s moving at all. 100% of the stock original Mohawks that come across my plate, all have granite in the gear box. Whatever grease Lionel used back in the day goes solid like a rock. Even excavating it can be a challenge ……

Pat

Hi AFAIK Lionell post war pulmore motors they used lubriplate which was a soft white great but as Pat had said it would get hard as a rock in time and the gears would not be able to turn at all!  and ounce you clean the gear box out completely and i would recommend polishing the commutator so it looks and feels like a mirror and change the brushes and springs will run perfectly I prefer red thick n tackey great very sticky and stays on the gears and on the  axles I use turbine oil 1 drop per axle bearing, due not put to much oil on brush holder bearing as oil will get on the brushes and really have poor contact with brush and commutator face!

Alan

@miller3 posted:

I just purchased the 1998 3005 mohawk that has a pulmore motor, and the locomotive is extremely sluggish, stalling out quite a bit. I put oil on the armeture points as stated in the manual, but still very sluggish, any ideas on what the culprit is, and what I should try to improve performance.

Miller,

I have one of these, and bought it brand-new back then.

From experience you also need to know that, as they came out of the factory, they have a problem with the motor drive circuit board (ACDR), which was fixed in the field when Lionel issued a newer version of that board.  The original board doesn't provide enough drive to propel the engine to a satisfactory top speed.

The new board is part number 691-PCB-1021.

The old one was 610-8064-256:

Follow these links for additional details:

     TMCC Mow-hawk Lionel 6-18064 (1/4/18) | Ted S

     Some or all of the 18064s had a defective board (12/18/14) | northeast

Mike

@miller3 - I bought a 'used' one of these #3005 (6-18064) Mohawk engines - equipped with Lionel's ubiquitous Pullmor motor - several years ago and it didn't run worth a darn when I first got it.  So I shipped it off to Pat (aka harmonyards) who he did a complete and comprehensive servicing at a very reasonable price (including a thorough lube as well as shimming the motor) and its run great ever since.   

Here is a video of my 18064 Mohawk which I purchased used after the motor drive circuit drive board was replaced by Lionel.  After receiving it I serviced it as Harmonyards recommended earlier in this posting.  She really runs well as the video amply illustrates-Pullmore motor and all.  I must admit not as good as a Pittman but it does the trick for me.

A Pittman motor would make it run better, but the leading suspects are a defective motor drive circuit board, hardened grease in the gearbox, and a lack of break-in time.  Most, if not all of these had subpar motor driver boards.  I'm not sure if the replacements are still available 25 years later, maybe a candidate for an ERR upgrade?

@PH1975 posted:

@miller3 - I bought a 'used' one of these #3005 (6-18064) Mohawk engines - equipped with Lionel's ubiquitous Pullmor motor - several years ago and it didn't run worth a darn when I first got it.  So I shipped it off to Pat (aka harmonyards) who he did a complete and comprehensive servicing at a very reasonable price (including a thorough lube as well as shimming the motor) and its run great ever since.

I also sent my Chessie Steam Special to Pat, only it got a Pittman motor transplant. Runs flawlessly.

If Miller wants to keep his AC Pulmor motor, and after he does a thorough tune up, if he finds the motor driver to be problematic, and the “fix” board is NLA at Lionel ( which it probably is NLA ) he can opt for an ERR AC Commander. That will finish cleaning up how it runs. Sometimes combining ERR driver boards with Lionel’s IR tether system,  can disrupt the serial data, but the addition of a serial buffer can cure that issue as well,…..there’s more than one way to skin a cat,………but the steps would be full tune up, ( including gear box ) a test run to determine additional actions, installing a AC Commander if warranted, then retest, and then determine if there’s a serial disruption or not, ……they don’t always go wonky with the data stream, but sometimes they do,…..that’s when the serial buffer comes into action,….😉

Pat

The other option for Miller if he’s staying conventional, would be to bypass the driver portion with an electronic E unit, from Dallee, or that one off the popular auction site, or even a mechanical e unit could be employed here, …….18009 came with a mechanical e unit, …..more than likely I’ve got dozens here if that’s the route he so chooses, ……😁

Pat

@harmonyards - Just to clarify Pat (for my benefit), I didn't see @miller3 mention whether he ran in conventional mode or command, but the #3005 Mohawk (6-18064) came TMCC equipped out of the box. So I was a little confused about your last comment when you mentioned a "mechanical e unit". Then again, I'm not the brightest bulb in the bunch.

@PH1975 posted:

@harmonyards - Just to clarify Pat (for my benefit), I didn't see @miller3 mention whether he ran in conventional mode or command, but the #3005 Mohawk (6-18064) came TMCC equipped out of the box. So I was a little confused about your last comment when you mentioned a "mechanical e unit". Then again, I'm not the brightest bulb in the bunch.

If he’s strictly a conventional guy, ie; no command control remote, he can go cheap route out, and just bypass the motor driver. This engine is some of  Lionel’s first modular board locomotives, ….he can cheat it, still have his sounds, and simply disconnect the motor from the rest of the system, and divorce that part of the wiring, and wire in something like a Dallee reverser, or even a mechanical e unit if he finds a place to cram it in there……or super cheap cheap, and just hard wire the motor for forward only right from track power, ( using a throttle of course)………the sound system would still work in conventional, ……

Pat

Hi all,

Thanks so much for the great comments and recommendations.

I am hoping to keep command control in the locomotive, I am also hoping to keep the original sounds in it.

Last weekend I actually got a chance to run this locomotive on tmcc for a short time, and while it worked, the first few speedsteps didn't result in movement, but it would work at the higher settings. Here is a video of that. (from this operation, do yall think it had the revised board, or is this still pretty terrible from an operation standpoint (it was pulling my modern consist just to give some weight behind it).

My current thinking is to clean out and relube the drivetrain, and if that doesn't work then maybe switch to a new motor and err cruise. I searched the forum and it seems timko makes adapter kits? Any thoughts of how those work out?

Thanks again,

Miller

This engine doesn’t have cruise. Non cruise engines pretty much behave like they would in conventional. Its takes some voltage to get them moving and that varies from engine to engine. Speed steps don’t have any meaning here.

Pete

I'm not personally a fan of the small motor that Timko uses.  Unless you're determined to add cruise control, I don't think it's an improvement.  Someday I would like to see scientific tests comparing a 1990s Pullmor to the little Mabuchi RS-385.  I'm pretty sure that the Pullmor has more starting torque.  Now a big Pittman motor, that's a different story...!

It's was widely reported when these came out that the motor driver boards had issues.  One thing you could do to test it, is to disconnect the electronics and "hot wire" the motor directly to the track and ground.  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised what that old gal can do!

The Timko swap has its place, ….yes, it’s extremely underwhelming, but for the DIY guy that doesn’t have an arsenal of heavy tools, and machines, it’s a convenient package that is a bolt on swap. The nice thing about 18064, as I mentioned earlier, this is one of Lionel’s first locomotives with the modular board system. So if Miller wants this to be a DIY project, A Timko transplant, an ERR Cruise M driver board, maybe a serial buffer if needed, a little wiring, and he’s in business…..OR, if he desires the large Pittman, but wants to do the electronics himself, he can send the locomotive to me for just the heavy grunt work,…….I do a lot of that for the fellas that can do all the electronics work themselves,….

Pat