2016 Greenberg Price Drops

The picture showing the Lionel 2245 v. the "scale" Texas Special is a bit misleading. The Lionel 2245 was an F-3 and the "scale" was an E-7. The 2000 HP E-7's were much bigger than the 1500HP F-3s inasmuch as the E7 had two prime movers, whereas the F-3 had one.  Lionel's F-3 was in fact pretty close to scale.

lewrail

How about, reduction is disposable income?

While I'm a scale operator, the postwar Lionel Texas Special remains one of my favorite engines.  Thus, I would chose the engine on the right!  

Jim

I understand the scale/postwar dilemma, but for me it would have to be the 2245 postwar version.

I never saw one in real life, but the 2245 and some of the other postwar F3 paint schemes really impress me.  I picked up a really nice 2245 set from the original owner in San Antonio 20 yrs ago and it went straight onto the "don't even ask" shelf.

Its simple math, as more post war collectors go to the big train room in the sky there are less of them. Now the families sell off their collections and with there being less and less post war collectors and more and more post war available the price drops. Its a supply and demand thing. There is becoming much more supply than demand

Prices of antiques on LPB show have been dropping for many items now compared to 5 to 10 years ago as shown when they revisit and up date older shows.

Price guides are just out of dated guesses.  Ebay completed auctions are more accurate but most often are high due to the competition of most auctions.

Train shows should be cheaper once the sellers get away from asking the guide or I-phoned Ebay price they start with after not selling an item for awhile.

The bubble has popped on high priced vintage trains due the many fine reasons others have given of decreased demand and modern gear appealing to many newer train fans.

I am happy to see prices fall as maybe I can get some of the better stuff I could never convince myself I needed at the high prices.

Choo choo

For those who like the Lionel 2245 I'm sorry to report that F-3s never pulled the real life Texas Special.  The first Texas Special was powered by E-7s and the final version was pulled by E-8s.

Notwithstanding the above, my Texas Special is pulled by MTH F-3s, because E7s are too big for my 15 inch cars.

lewrail

I have been picking up pieces of Very Nice Postwar products for my layout for the past 2 years now,and most of it,at prices that could not be thought of before the economic collapse of 2008.

Besides a lot of postwar and prewar product seeing daylight for the first time in 30-40 years,due to the passing on of collectors,or health problems that either prevent them from enjoying their layouts,or being shipped off to assisted living homes where there is no room for a layout.

Alot of these gentlemen want to pass on their collections to their sons and daughters,but the families often have NO interest in the trains at all, or are forced to sell them off to help pay for the costs of assisted living homes and unreal health care costs.

It is sad that this is going on,but it has made more product available at lower prices,due to this happening to multiple families at the same time.Remember,Lionel and American Flyer sold MILLIONS of these trains,and due to their unreal craftsmanship and quality,it seems like MILLIONS of them are still around!!

Also,many people who ran postwar trains before the Command Control trains became available,selling off their postwar and prewar items to help pay for New,high priced new products they want to buy once the DCS or Legacy bug bites them.

I have been a conventional holdout,despite all of the buzz going on about the new stuff.To me,the newer trains just don't have that"magic" to me that postwar and prewar trains somehow seem to have. I can work on my older stuff and fix it if something goes wrong or just wears out,and the postwar trains make their own LOUD Clickity-Clack Sounds,whether you want them to or not.

 With the newer trains,most people I know that run MTH or Legacy trains are either sending them in for warranty work,or taking them to authorized repair centers because of one problem or another.To me,it seems these new trains look and perform best at slow speeds,and I really like to "HIGHBALL" my stuff,and I am not impressed with the new trains performance at higher speeds.

And while I too am impressed by the sounds and new fan driven smoke units on the new trains,I am not impressed enough or financially well off enough to spend 2 house payments on a single engine,that does basically the same things my postwar trains do.If I retro fit one of the new smoke units into one of my postwar trains,now that would be cool,but probably not as fun as getting that postwar smoke unit heated up,and dropping in those wonderful smoke pellets that have that feature that new ones don't:They even SMELL like a Lionel train!!!  

I bought a fantastic set of Santa Fe's for $250.00 6 months ago,and 10 years ago they would have sold for $450-$600 on the bay.I have noticed the downward trend for sometime now,but I know other guys have too,and that is what is keeping the trains from selling for even less than they do,because as several guys on this thread have stated,it is a great time to be an operator,and not have to pre order your trains and wait forever for them finally to be delivered and running on your layout.  

Don't take me wrong,command control and new features have injected new life into a dying hobby,and probably saved it from being a thing of the past.

But for me,my new layout will have 1 line of 5 running at 18 Volts constantly,the others are for me to enjoy my beloved prewar and postwar trains,I just want to be able to run new stuff if friends come over,and to maybe buy a few new ones used, and explore the features of any new product coming out.

And I don't want to totally be ignorant about the new trains,just because I'm an old fart that likes to drop smoke pellets down the stack,and am turned on by the sound of a loud,buzzing e-unit.

To me,that's still where the magic of Lionel trains is at!!!And the lower prices are just a bonus,allowing me also to obtain nice examples of items that I never could afford before the prices started going down. 

Exactly why I operate postwar!  Also why I've started to get into Williams, but there's other threads for that

Its about time the guides started to reflect reality. To reprint the guides year after year with incorrect and inaccurate values just to present a product is fruitless. Prices for vintage trains of ALL eras and gauges are down. I've been liquidating my collections for the last several years in anticipation of retirement. I had been buying trains for decades, some at high prices of the day and some at bargain prices. Some items still sold quickly at great prices and others I was forced to accept a lower amount to move the item to a new home. Over all, I came out about even and was able to buy a ranch in Texas two weeks ago with my profits. It seems that today, most buyers are interested in the newer offerings as they sold very quickly and at good prices. Vintage items generally took time and some negotiation.

Good idea, Larry!

Being part of the younger generation of model railroaders, I'll contribute some of my insight. I collected the prewar and postwar stuff for about 5 years. My father has been doing it for about 18 years now. We've seen the birth of eBay and the huge decline in values.

eBay is definitely becoming the new guide. Just type in a number and go to completed listings. I have a 2279WS with the 746 in it. No boxes but otherwise entirely complete, accessories track and all, conditions range from C5-C7. I paid $375 for the entire set from the original owner who received it as a Christmas gift. I could probably sell the whole set and make a good amount of money on it, but I'm way too attached to it. I know in 50 years it'll probably be worth next to nothing.

The main part of the hobby of trains now is railfanning. Decent cameras are cheap, and information is everywhere. Most people now will get started in that, and then get into models. Now, if you're watching real trains, and you want to model the things you see, postwar and prewar toy trains aren't the way to go. One goes to the scale models. And there's only one scale that covers a vast variety of prototypical modern models: HO. That's where most of this hobby seems to be nowadays, scale HO models.

Personally, I started with the I Love Toy Trains videos, and my father's collection. We'd go watch real trains every once in a while. Once I had an income, I started with my own toy train collection. But then I got into railfanning, spending hours next to the tracks, tracking special locomotives and trains. Then my attention shifted to the models. Now most of my funds is directed into scale modern models and custom painting some of them. If I see a postwar or prewar piece I know I don't have and like at a decent price I'll still buy it. I just don't avidly search for certain things anymore, and I never pay top dollar because I know there will always be another at a good price.

That's my input.

Trevor 

Jim,

How about that? My sentiments exactly, despite the fact that few will admit to it. The one thing that I have noticed. No matter what economy each of us adjust our budget to include trains.

REmember Greenbergs price guide is only a price guide it is not in cement what buyer and seller agree to. postwar trains in excellent condition and above with original boxes always command a premium,look and see what collectors are paying for original boxes and set boxes alone. Anything rare will always command a higher price from buyers,common stuff much lower,My postwar collection has been exciting from the very start as a child, and only grown as a senior, this hobby keeps me focused,with fellow train collectors and enjoyment going to York,Pa. Tca meet for over 40 years.It is a great and relaxing hobby that I continually look forward to being part of, until it is my time to leave for the happy hunting grounds!                                          

also don't forget about demographics and geography.

I live in Northern New York State. prices up here are,

in some cases, drastically lower at shows then say, out in the Midwest,

Indiana, Illinios and Wisconsin.

Ive been to shows up here and compared prices when I go to shows

with my brother out in the Midwest and prices are usually higher out there.

True, but the purpose of the picture was the detailing with newer verse prewar

I'm glad the price book is finally coming down. For the past several years, I've seen those prices as insurance prices, and real prices being about 1/2 to 2/3 of what's listed