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Had a customer with a 'brand new in box' PS1 ABA purchased at YORK visit in distress.

"Can't get it to work!" "put in a BCR and still won't work!"

 

From all appearances, it is brand new (1995 vintage) and he did put BCR in before trying to run it.

 

The engine is an early NYC ABA with a master slave setup and 4 motors.

 

This was interesting for me as initial symptom for me was train locked in neutral.

 

After separating the units, the master A would not take the 18 reset and return to normal. It would take a 54 but once the unit was shut off, it returned to lock up. Turns out this may be normal when the slave unit is not attached as when we put the two A's together, it would take the reset, return back to normal operation, but lock up again after shut off for a minute.

 

Pulled out the BCR and put in a Duracell and the two A's reset and ran fine. Tried another BCR, would not work. This brings me to a recollection that I have had certain PS1 engines that just would not function with a BCR. Anyone else ever have that?

OK

Now put the B unit back in. Slave A would not run. No power to the motors, all tethers in correctly and tight.

Open up the B unit and find the wires crossed in the plug between tethers. Take a look at the picture. Anyone seen that before?

 

 

100_2171 [800x597)

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I am sorry GGG.

I should have ended by saying that a new NiCad and redoing the wires correctly fixed the problem. He left with all running well.

 

My questions were more a  curiousity, especially the BCR one.

 

First for me was realizing that the master unit was looking for the slave to go back into normal operation after reset.

Thanks

I do think the early boards (94) where not recommended with BCR.  So that may be it, plus you can always have an odd reaction with electronics depending on the tolerances.

 

I have seen PS-1 engines change direction with dead batteries so go figure.

 

The slave and doing a reset should not be a factor.  The harness picks off control voltage and relay signals that activate the transistors that control the relay coil voltage/current.

 

The slave board electronics for directional control are not even connected when the jumper is removed.  The relays are driven by the master board circuit that drives the relays.

 

I have seen wire harness colors not match up in early F-3 units.  So when I do upgrades I always have to check continuity through the old harness.  This is for AA or ABA with only Lead A powered. 

 

Newer versions tended to be straight pass thru wiring.  G

Originally Posted by GGG:

I do think the early boards (94) where not recommended with BCR.  So that may be it, plus you can always have an odd reaction with electronics depending on the tolerances.

Think you are correct here. BCR works but in a crummy way on my own unit of same type here waiting for a slave upgrade

 

I have seen PS-1 engines change direction with dead batteries so go figure.

 

The slave and doing a reset should not be a factor.  The harness picks off control voltage and relay signals that activate the transistors that control the relay coil voltage/current.

But it was! and that WAS AN 18 & A 54.

 

The slave board electronics for directional control are not even connected when the jumper is removed.  The relays are driven by the master board circuit that drives the relays.

The wiring to the B was correct and the wiring at the tether (color code) to the slave A was correct but the wiring at the connectors was wrong.

 

I have seen wire harness colors not match up in early F-3 units.  So when I do upgrades I always have to check continuity through the old harness.  This is for AA or ABA with only Lead A powered. Maybe so, but in this case, the harness was correct at tether but not at connector.

 

Newer versions tended to be straight pass thru wiring.  G

I guess they finally got it. We di too, took the connector out of the picture,

 

Well,  what model is this Hugh.  A quick search of the MTH web showed an AA and separate B, but the AA was a dummy trail. Soooo...based on all this maybe some one added the slave unit to the dummy with motors etc...  May explain the wiring error.  Also if a DCRU wasn't modified correctly to be a slave (there is a trace to cut) it can drain a battery over time.  Not sure if it would overload it on a shutdown.  If you had normal shutdown sounds I would expect that the reset could be handled.  You can also lock the reset in with an advance to a different reset state.  G

I recently had an issue with my Rock Island E8 set and what I ended up discovering was that the instructions for resetting the engine in the owners manual for the engine was different than what the z4000 instructions had,and the instructions in the z4000 told you not to follow the owners manual for the engine. There was a difference in what buttons to use either the whistle or bell button. Don't know if this would help but I figured I would toss it out there.

Originally Posted by GGG:

Well,  what model is this Hugh.  A quick search of the MTH web showed an AA and separate B, but the AA was a dummy trail. Soooo...based on all this maybe some one added the slave unit to the dummy with motors etc...  May explain the wiring error.  Also if a DCRU wasn't modified correctly to be a slave (there is a trace to cut) it can drain a battery over time.  Not sure if it would overload it on a shutdown.  If you had normal shutdown sounds I would expect that the reset could be handled.  You can also lock the reset in with an advance to a different reset state.  G

Not at all G, This one is a premier 20-2176-1 all packed in one big purple box.

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/20-2176-1

 

You may have missed my earlier posts.

New NiCad, straightened out the B unit wires, everything including all the reset work fine. Saw the guy today in passing, loves it!

Originally Posted by Chip:

I recently had an issue with my Rock Island E8 set and what I ended up discovering was that the instructions for resetting the engine in the owners manual for the engine was different than what the z4000 instructions had,and the instructions in the z4000 told you not to follow the owners manual for the engine. There was a difference in what buttons to use either the whistle or bell button. Don't know if this would help but I figured I would toss it out there.

Chip, that is exactly where my diagnostic approach began having been there before, I was really was confused and disappointed when that did not turn out to be it. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Hugh Laubis:
Originally Posted by Chip:

I recently had an issue with my Rock Island E8 set and what I ended up discovering was that the instructions for resetting the engine in the owners manual for the engine was different than what the z4000 instructions had,and the instructions in the z4000 told you not to follow the owners manual for the engine. There was a difference in what buttons to use either the whistle or bell button. Don't know if this would help but I figured I would toss it out there.

Chip, that is exactly where my diagnostic approach began having been there before, I was really was confused and disappointed when that did not turn out to be it. Thanks!

Either will work, but the Z-4000 instructions are for doing it automatically with the Z-4000 PG function.  I have done the manual version with the Z and it works fine.

Hugh, that is a 98 version so if you have boards in it labeled with a 94 they may not be original boards.  Of course they could be and that is just a copy right date.  Some boards have a date code printed on them others are blank.  G

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