2343 worm gear

Sometimes as things wear, there will be enough side to side play for either the backs of the wheels or the sides of the gear to rub against the sides of the truck block, creating friction.
When that happens, the play needs to be addressed.
I don't think of shims, as in some sort of flat stock, as being a good answer because then something is just rubbing against the shim instead of the truck block.

In my experience, this usually happens because either the end(s) of the bearings are worn, or the bearings were pushed in too far.
On solution would be to replace the bearings, which would be the most work.

The next best solution would be to put shim washer(s) in the appropriate place. When it is a wheel rubbing, the washer would go between the rubbing wheel and the bearing. When it is a gear rubbing, it would go between the wheel and the axle bearing on the side opposite the gear rub.

Exactly what washer to use varies. When I elect not to change the bearing, sometimes I use a 671M-23 or 671m-19 washer. Other times I use a thin nylon washer (purchased an assortment of sizes on Ebay).

I pull the wheel.

Some folks use E-rings or horsehoe washers because reportedly they can be snapped over the axle, eliminating the need to remove the wheel.
In some Lionel documentation, they recommend cutting a section out of a washer, and snapping it over the shaft (axle). I've done this somewhere along the line. It does work.

Over the last 6 months or so, I've ended up working on 4 of these F3 sets and absolutely love them. When I opened the first one up, I had the same concern as Oldtimer about the worm play and also read CW's old posts about the bearing wear. I discovered that I had a tool that I used for other purposes that ended up being very helpful. It's a Fluke 62plus Infra Red thermometer. It's not easy to tell if either motor is laboring more than the other (unless the obvious things happen, like one visually turns it's gears slower). After I take them apart and clean out the old lube, relube, rewire, and tuneup the motors with new brushes and springs, I put it on the track and run it. After about 10 minutes, I aim the meter at each motor and take a reading. Most times they are within a couple of degrees or less of one another. On one occasion, there was a big difference. I wasn't sure if it was because of the worm play or bearing play in the front axle (those wheels moved laterally more than all the others). But I also noticed that the Magnetraction was gone in the front axle. I just found another front power truck as my solution. Retested and the temps were the same.

There was a thread the other day about showing your slowest engine running conventional. I posted one of my F3s running at 5.5volts....extremely smooth. These all had some play in the worm gear, but my temp readings were great for them and they run smoothly in both directions, so I'm not going to worry about the play. But that meter has been a real help to me with these dual horizontal "growlers". They are a joy to work on and run............except for the horns which is a whole other story. LOL

Roger

Took your advise  Roger1. Didnt use any shims.  Put a couple dabs of red n tacky on the worm and axle gears.  Couple drops of oil on axle shafts motor resvors. The results are: Start-up voltage: 3.88V.  Soon as I crack transformer it moves.  Runs real smooth around a modest 125' of track with "b" unit and dummy at 5.38V.  Pulling a "b" unit and dummy, plus 20 heavy PW cars it pulls 4.25A at 15.5V for a total wattage of 65.8W.  That seems like alot of watts?  My PW Geeps only pull around 30 watts. It runs real smooth.  Love the "growl", and "ozone" smell.  Does that seem about right?  Thanks for all the responses.   

Oldtimer,

Sound like you've got it dialed in. When I've hooked my clamp meter to the output wires...4.25 amps at 15V is not a high number. Remember, you're running two motors in there. Perfectly normal. And if it runs smooth......savor it. They are wonderful!

Roger

Each of the end "blocks" for the double worm shaft has a small ball bearing in it, and these do get pushed into the block causing the play you describe. I'm trying to recall if I have ever been able to press the ball back to the center of the block, but I certainly have shimmed the blocks as you describe to keep the spur gear centered in the truck opening with a minimum amount of forward/aft shaft movement.

I reassemble the trucks, after thorough cleaning, with Lucas Red 'N' Tacky #2. Here's a 2333 that I shimmed & lubed(and running on a RS-1 transformer):

Rob: are you writing about front to back movement of the double worm shaft?
Or side to side movement of the worm wheel (gear)?

 Double worm gear shaft, same as oldtimer.

Rob,

I'm a little confused on the "block" issue. You said that the bearing gets pushed into the block. I'm not sure I understand that. The bearing sticks out a bit on the outside of each block. I don't see how the worm gear shaft, which is inside the block can do anything other than push the bearing even more to the outside.

Roger

Take the block out and look into the hole. You should see the ball bearing inside of it.

Notice that the hole in the block is off center.

And be sure you put that bearing block back in the same way too, or you will be scratching your head and then cussin' a spell after taking it all apart two more times...

I'm troubleshooting the same issue. I'm still a little confused about where the bearing in the block should be. Every picture I can find using google shows the new blocks with the bearing at one end. Any chance someone can measure the length of the brass section on a new block. I'm trying to figure out how much the blocks in the engine I am servicing are worn.

Here is the 2333-65 part.

For whatever reason, the shaft develops some end play due to wear over 60-65 years. I tap the ball bearing flush with the brass housing and then shim the 2333-65 at each end in the truck to center the spur gear in position. I've had these so worn that the shaft moves so much so as to contact the truck frame cover and slow down the motor, usually the rear truck in the forward direction.