3-Rail Railroading in a FL garage?

Based on my experiences in South Florida, if it was me, I'd go full insulation, preferably closed cell foam insulation. Much more efficient & adds rigidity to the structure.  Mice love to nest in that fiberglass stuff. Also A/C for sure. Say from April/ May through to October it is hot & muggy. April through to June it's rainy season. June through November is hurricane season which could mean any number of tropical storms. All of which means moisture.  

For water lines, I would highly recommend copper. I install kitchens in multi million dollar homes. They all use copper. That plastic tubing may be cheaper but will eventually burst inside a wall & cause water damage.

Scott D. posted:

Hello, Everyone,

I am both new to the forum and new to modern O-gauge trains. My wife and I are contemplating a move to central FL to a home we would have custom built. In the central FL home we are contemplating, the only place available to run trains, at least O-gauge trains, would be the garage. Never having lived, full time, in FL, I have not much more than a vague idea of what could be done to run trains in a garage. Can anyone advise me:

(1) Is it possible, or even advisable, to run O-gauge trains in a garage in central FL?

(2) If the answer to (1) is "yes", and given the home is not yet built, what accommodations need to be made for the trains? Do I need to plan for A/C? Or can the trains survive the summer without A/C and without incurring damage (heat, condensing moisture, mildew, etc.)?

(3) What questions have I not asked that I should have asked?

Any help from our FL members would be greatly appreciated.

Scott D.

Scott,

My thread from 2017 when I was moving should provide you with some guidance.

https://ogrforum.com/...e-humidity-real-trax

A/C is a must at the minimum.  If you have never lived here all year around, you can't believe how hot and humid it gets, especially from May through October.  Don't solder your rail joints either.  The summer heat is the price we pay for the rest of the year.  I don't think a dehumidifier is necessary if you have a/c but other knowledgeable forum participants might want to chime in.  Living here gets some getting used to (both good and bad).  I live just south of the Space Center in a sleepy little town, but the growth is just unbelievable.  RoundhouseSouth in  Port Orange (near Daytona), Colonial Photo in Orlando, Zitnik Trains and H &R Trains in Pinellas Park, (St. Pete) are highly recommended.  Get my info from my profile and e-mail me when you get here.  

Where are you moving? If you are coming to the Sarasota Bradenton area come visit our train club, RealRail.  You can run trains whenever you want.

Hi! And welcome to the forum! You find much information here! Central Florida: you dont say exactly where...... Central Fl. is big and a lot of open space. Community or rural, they have it all! If you're getting a big piece of land, build a separate building. If not and only the garage, have it finished with insulation and sheet rock. Any AC will work overtime if only bare block walls. I would install a small but high efficient 2 part AC unit just for the garage. Seperate thermostat equals less money spent on cooling. Make sure you get the best hurricane garage door you can afford!! I agree to do all your plumbing in copper. Also give thought to impact windows. You may not be living near the coast, but it doesnt mean you're safe from the wind. Good luck with your future!! (I've been doing construction in South Florida for 30+ years)

This may sound like a dumb question, but if you are having a house custom built, why limit yourself to using the garage for your trains?

If none of the bedrooms are big enough, why not build a house with a bonus room, like maybe a finished room over garage (FROG).  If you are not into formal dining (my wife and I aren't) you could also convert a dining room into other uses, like trains or crafts.

I have a couple of great storage cabinets and have moved to a carpet layout in our rental home (sold our last home of 25 years, six months ago).  So, I'm thinking I may not even have a permanent layout in my next house (2 - 3 years). 

Jim

To everyone who's responded, so far, thank you! Several of you asked for our specific future location. We're moving to The Villages, so when I said "Central FL", I meant roughly the middle of nowhere Thanks so much for the referrals to train shops, train clubs and offers to visit. I am now looking forward to joining what seems to be an active O Gauge community in FL. If anyone has recommendations for suppliers of hurricane garage doors and impact windows or any other construction tips, I'd love to have them!

I live on the Gulf Coast, a native, in a virtually identical climate - maybe wetter. People here have model RR's in the garage quite often. You must have A/C; insulate the garage door; if not, get another hobby or move to Colorado.

Otherwise, contrary to some beliefs, humidity is not fatal, nor will it come and attack you.

I personally have a separate RR building; small window unit A/C and insulation (except under the floor; the building is built on piers, about 1.5 ft high; common here, good for a breeze/summer heat dissipation). My trains - TMCC and so on - are fine, run fine, some are 20+ years old. I do not run a de-humidifier. I run the A/C only when I'm in the building.

I'll take our "natural" humidity to that found in some Northern basements any time. And - no sump pump!

As I wrote on another post, almost same question but Real Trax. Were friend had and used only Fast Track in 7 years running, no AC or humidifier, never had a problem.

Little Giant posted:

Hi! And welcome to the forum! You find much information here! Central Florida: you dont say exactly where...... Central Fl. is big and a lot of open space. Community or rural, they have it all! If you're getting a big piece of land, build a separate building. If not and only the garage, have it finished with insulation and sheet rock. Any AC will work overtime if only bare block walls. I would install a small but high efficient 2 part AC unit just for the garage. Seperate thermostat equals less money spent on cooling. Make sure you get the best hurricane garage door you can afford!! I agree to do all your plumbing in copper. Also give thought to impact windows. You may not be living near the coast, but it doesnt mean you're safe from the wind. Good luck with your future!! (I've been doing construction in South Florida for 30+ years)

Thanks for responding to my query. You raise a good question re: a room over the garage. The floor plan does not allow for one, as currently drawn, but it would definitely be a question worth asking. A 400 sq ft room would cost in the neighborhood of an additional $10k-$15k, if added at ground level. I do not know what the cost would be to resize and strengthen the trusses over the garage to support the additional weight and to add a staircase. I’ll add this to our list of questions to the builder.

As for converting the dining room…your spouse is more tolerant of trains than mine…

Thanks and regards,

Scott D.

Retirement communities, like The Villages, aren't for everyone, but my folks moved there in 1999 and absolutely loved living there.  My Dad passed away two years ago, but my Mom I don't think will ever move. 

Another option to the garage, might be the lanai (sun room). These rooms are often finished and heated/cooled.  Villagers loved their lanais, and my Dad ALWAYS drank his morning coffee and did the daily crossword on theirs.

In the Villages, I would opt for a room at ground level instead of a room over the garage.  Much easier to sell the house if y'all ever decide to do this.

I have never been to one of their events, but The Villages does have a model train club, with subgroups for each of the 7 scales, including O.

Jim

 A question for you Florida guys. At one time there was a highly detailed 3 rail layout being built in Tarpon Springs in a Quonset hut. While visiting friends we drove by it a few times. Fox in Florida had a morning show that featured it. It was being built in the hut. But when completed it was going to be displayed elsewhere. The modeling shown was highly detailed. Just wondering if anybody knows what became of it.

 Doug N.  I visit Bradenton a couple times in the winter months. I’ve been by Real Rails a few times and have been meaning to check it out. It’s on the  to do list for next year.

You’re going to want AC.  I live just north of Tampa and I just built a climate-controlled train room in my pole barn.  Without AC, any exposed ferrous metal will rust; it’s just a question of how quickly.  I’ve had track rust while sitting in boxes with desiccant before I built the new room.  If you can get it, a second AC zone would be best.  Trains are perfectly happy at 80 degrees as long as the air is dry.  I used a ductless mini split just for my train room.

You’re going to love the Villages.  They have about a half dozen model railway clubs, including O, and they put on two good swap meets and two layout shows each year.  I always go to those shows.  They’re some of the better ones in FL.

Have AC installed in the garage.   I had a separate vent added to the inside air system.  No problem.   Also, have the electric for the layout run before you start building the layout.   I live in South Florida and have never had a problem with humid air. 

Dave_C posted:

  Doug N.  I visit Bradenton a couple times in the winter months. I’ve been by Real Rails a few times and have been meaning to check it out. It’s on the  to do list for next year.

Dave come see us.  We are building a new O’Gauge layout and also have a nice HO layout.  If you are a snowbird, we offer seasonal memberships also, but come for a visit. (Do I sound like the membership director, I should 😀)

Amfleet25124 posted:

Scott D. posted:

Hello, Everyone,

I am both new to the forum and new to modern O-gauge trains. My wife and I are contemplating a move to central FL to a home we would have custom built. In the central FL home we are contemplating, the only place available to run trains, at least O-gauge trains, would be the garage. Never having lived, full time, in FL, I have not much more than a vague idea of what could be done to run trains in a garage. Can anyone advise me:

(1) Is it possible, or even advisable, to run O-gauge trains in a garage in central FL?

(2) If the answer to (1) is "yes", and given the home is not yet built, what accommodations need to be made for the trains? Do I need to plan for A/C? Or can the trains survive the summer without A/C and without incurring damage (heat, condensing moisture, mildew, etc.)?

(3) What questions have I not asked that I should have asked?

Any help from our FL members would be greatly appreciated.

Scott D.

Scott,

My thread from 2017 when I was moving should provide you with some guidance.

https://ogrforum.com/...e-humidity-real-trax

 

Kevin,

 I didn't see what the outcome was in your situation. Did you built a layout yet, if so where and how did it work out?

 I hope to retire in 2-3 years. Ocala Fl. and Upstate New York are on the short list if we move, Upstate NY is probably most likely. 

Tom 

Hi and welcome, you`ll have a lot of fun here, my wife and i moved to Cypress Lakes in Lakeland, a 55 plus community, don`t have a garage but had the house built with an extra room just for my trains, if you have a spare bedroom that won`t be used, you can put your layout there, if not possible, then a the garage with A/C plus an extra couple of  outlets to power it up before you build the layout, good luck which ever way you go, Phil

There have been a lot of references to AC as a must have.  My family moved to Fort Meyers area 20 years ago.  We moved in our new home in the middle of summer.  A lot of the things off the truck were put in the garage. The heat and humidity was so brutal, you literally could not spend much more than a 1/2 hour before having to go inside.

It is most common to see cars in the driveways until the weather breaks in the fall. I've seen people who put pool tables in their garage.  The wood warps and degrades.  Your benchwork is also a major consideration. 

I asked people, when do you get cold fronts to get a break in the weather.  After they picked themselves off the floor after laughing at me, the responded "after Thanksgiving".  Boy were they spot on.  From Easter until Thanksgiving it is consistently hot and humid.  In the Ocala area where you are moving, it also can go below freezing in deep winter.  

Scott, the most important issue is your personal health and enjoyment.  The trains can handle heat and humidity better than the human body.  Buy the insulation and AC for YOU!  Your trains will benefit in the process.  You guest and you will stay longer running your trains, instead of bee lining to the inside to cool down.  Just my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

I hope the advice here is an affirmation of your intention to insulate and AC.  It is literally a no brainer.  Condition your environment.  Welcome to Florida.  Send me an email and I will explain the loofas and the meaning of the colors that people display on their golf carts.

MNCW posted:

Amfleet25124 posted:

Scott D. posted:

Hello, Everyone,

I am both new to the forum and new to modern O-gauge trains. My wife and I are contemplating a move to central FL to a home we would have custom built. In the central FL home we are contemplating, the only place available to run trains, at least O-gauge trains, would be the garage. Never having lived, full time, in FL, I have not much more than a vague idea of what could be done to run trains in a garage. Can anyone advise me:

(1) Is it possible, or even advisable, to run O-gauge trains in a garage in central FL?

(2) If the answer to (1) is "yes", and given the home is not yet built, what accommodations need to be made for the trains? Do I need to plan for A/C? Or can the trains survive the summer without A/C and without incurring damage (heat, condensing moisture, mildew, etc.)?

(3) What questions have I not asked that I should have asked?

Any help from our FL members would be greatly appreciated.

Scott D.

Scott,

My thread from 2017 when I was moving should provide you with some guidance.

https://ogrforum.com/...e-humidity-real-trax

 

Kevin,

 I didn't see what the outcome was in your situation. Did you built a layout yet, if so where and how did it work out?

 I hope to retire in 2-3 years. Ocala Fl. and Upstate New York are on the short list if we move, Upstate NY is probably most likely. 

Tom 

Tom,

The first floor garage in the townhouse was used for motor vehicles and I squeezed a 52x100 table in the living room on the second floor where I dabbled around in temporary O, HO, and N layouts along with my regular Halloween  and Christmas  ones.

We since moved to a downtown hi-rise apartment, which is not conducive to model trains or model planes - power tools, saw dust, paint spray residue, etc. are a no go  - so right now all I have is 2x8 display area adjacent to the kitchen.  I did run a small HO Inglenook Sidings switching layout for a while though.  Other than that, 99% of my train running time has been at the two train clubs that I'm a member of. Downtown hi-rise living isn't all it's cracked up to be, so we're currently looking at moving again, preferably to a single-family house with a yard, etc.

There's no doubt the humidity and high temps in the garage would create some unintended consequences with the wood used on the table, especially with track applied.  It's possible the humidity would effect the operation of the engines at some point.

The expansion and contraction of the wood products used on the table will  move the track back and forth to unacceptable levels.  Working in the summer heat of a garage would be unbearable, and unhealthy as mentioned above.  It seems that insulation and AC are the keys to a good operating layout and the most important thing, your enjoyment and health!

Scott,

Bryant has mentioned golf carts and that got me thinking that you definitely will want to have a golf cart in you are living in The Villages.  Makes sure that you have room in the garage for your gold cart.  Hopefully, this is not the same area that you were thinking of using for your trains.

Jim

Scott, I am on my second garage layout, Live in the Tampa area. You will have a problem with a garage layout in the Villages unless you want to keep your car or cars outside as a golf cart is almost a necessity in the villages. There are several active O gauge clubs up there.  Other issues are Fl garages on a slab will have a pulldown ladder for attic access.  If you decide to go ahead I have used Fastrack, now using Scaletrax with no problems from humidity. The only issue I have in the high humid days is the poster board I use for streets will wrinkle a  bit but it flattens right out with no damage.  The other issue I see with the Villages is  unless you build in the high priced areas with custom built homes you will really have space issues.  My garage is 25 ft wide with double doors so there is room for some wall storage room to park the car and fully open the car doors.  Attached are some photos of my current layout. I use steel framing because it is so light compared to wood and mount it on castors as you never know what  may have to be replaced in the garage.

Dave C  The Layout you refer to in Tarpon Springs is Fowler's Dream Layout.  It is still under construction, Check their web site. I have been helping on it for about ten years.  Don't know if it  will ever be finished. 

I live in the panhandle, and except for an occasional snow and 60+ inches of rain, it is humidity and heat.  I bought a previously owned 70s ranch and delegated the living/dining room to be the train room.  That gave me a 28'  by 14' around the wall layout.

If I was to build, I'd take advantage of today's house designs that favor high pitched roofs.  Normally, they use manufactured simple trusses that don't provide any usable attic space.  Sometimes, you'll see they use a storage truss that provides a small, open space with ladder access for storage.  These trusses are built with 2x4s and provide support for small loads,  This space is outside the insulated envelop.

Since you are custom building you can specify what size of attic you want.  It will be designed using larger lumber to support the additional loading (sometimes you'll see this called a 1 3/4 story house).  Spray foam on the underside of the rood and over the soffits brings the entire attic into the heating/cooling envelop of the house.  This is more efficient but costs more.  As long as you can handle the stairs, your wide and cars will appreciate it.

Jan

Scott, while not in FL.  when I helped my brother build a layout in his basement, which was always humid, we painted the floor with two part epoxy garage floor paint and the humidity dropped dramatically.          j

Do you find any plastic or other damage to the rolling stock and buildings being left in the garage?  What about the electronics?  Some plastics in attic spaces can warp or discolor, but I have never noticed that in a ground level Florida garage even though it gets very hot.  Tents and other treated fabrics and foam (like in helmets) seem to have the most problem from just garage heat and humidity, but I was wondering about train layouts and the cars.  There are garage doors openers and sprinkler controllers with electronics that sit out there and have no problem and plastic sporting and other equipment.  Not feasible to A/C at this time, but would like to store some trains, sets, and accessories out there and build a layout as well, but want to hear from the experts first.

I don't live in Florida, but I know what the climate is like there. I agree totally, if you are going to build the layout in the garage I would seriously think about making it climate controlled.  First of all, it will make it a lot more comfortable for you, a lot more pleasant experience.

More importantly, keeping the temperature relatively constant is better for almost anything on the layout, the wood, the scenery, and of course the track and rolling stock.  The biggie besides temperature is humidity and that can cause damage, especially if you are using steel track (in theory nickle silver like Atlas uses would not have that problem). Given you are custom building a house it would make sense to address it at this point, would be a lot less work than doing it after the fact. A dehumidifier might be necessary if the hvac system that is there doesn't keep humidity low enough in the humid months.

Central Florida can also get cold in winter as well. I don't know what they are putting in the house, will they be putting a heat pump system in for the HVAC? Or is it just central air? Is there any kind of auxiliary heating going to be in the house? If it isn't practical to extend a main system to the garage, you could get a mini split system installed, for the kind of temps you are talking summer or winter it likely would work great in there. When you aren't using it, you could prob set it for 55 in winter and like 78 in summer, and turn it up/down when you are in the garage and the layout will be fine. 

Just my thoughts,

@AJH4 posted:

Do you find any plastic or other damage to the rolling stock and buildings being left in the garage?  What about the electronics?  Some plastics in attic spaces can warp or discolor, but I have never noticed that in a ground level Florida garage even though it gets very hot.  Tents and other treated fabrics and foam (like in helmets) seem to have the most problem from just garage heat and humidity, but I was wondering about train layouts and the cars.  There are garage doors openers and sprinkler controllers with electronics that sit out there and have no problem and plastic sporting and other equipment.  Not feasible to A/C at this time, but would like to store some trains, sets, and accessories out there and build a layout as well, but want to hear from the experts first.

I suspect keeping the stuff in the garage may mostly be around how you keep it. You have to keep in mind that a garage door opener and a sprinkler controller and the like are designed to be in the garage, they assume it won't be climate controlled (unlike let's say an electronics unit used inside the house). There are sprinkler controllers for example they tell you are to be mounted inside only, others can be mounted outside.

I suspect with train stuff it will all depend. I would be leery about storing even post war trains in a florida garage with the humidity there, and with trains or transformers and the like with circuit boards in them heating up like that might cause problems. The plastics likely will be okay (keep in mind that an attic gets temperatures into the 130+ degree range in the sun), if the items are stored where they don't get sunlight on them (UV rays fade plastics). But if you have high humidity, if the items are in boxes and that could potentially cause problems with the boxes. If you had to store some things in a hot florida garage, the risk would prob be lower with structures and even most rolling stock, I wouldn't store engines in there or something like modern transformers and command systems.

I have lived in central FL for over 24 years (Winter Springs in Seminole County). Since you are building in the Villages, just south of Ocala, you will need an independent cooling/heating system in the garage, freezing temps in Ocala are not uncommon. Assuming you are building a concrete block home, your best bet will be to insulate the interior garage walls with foam sheets and paperless sheetrock over that. If you’re thinking of building a stick home I strongly recommend you reconsider (hurricane and/or tornado survival). The biggest issue will be finding a high quality fully insulated garage door, the garage door will be where the most heat and cold intrusion will occur. If your water heater will be located in the garage you may want to consider a heat pump water heater, you will basically cool the garage for free while generating hot water, I have one in my garage where I store a portion of my collection.

I noticed a few members recommending copper water lines, be careful with copper, since your home will be built on a slab any water lines imbedded in the concrete must have a sock lining on them, including copper, to prevent corrosion. In addition, the copper below and thru the slab MUST  be SOFT copper! I hear nightmares every day about water leaks in copper lines not properly installed and/or the use of rigid copper. If your contractor balks, find a new contractor.

Scott

Since you are building a garage with your new house, consider making it a two story garage and AC/heat it.  The cost of the upstairs hobby/train room for trains will be lower than an extra room on the house.  When  it comes to garages, basements and storage folks up north have an advantage.

Many houses down south have car ports and if lucky a small storage or utility room for their tools, lawnmowers, bicycles etc. and not room for train layouts.  Maybe you could add a second story to your two car garage as it is being built. Now is the time to swing a train or multi purpose room if you can afford it even if you have to have it only roughed in and finished later.

Charlie

Having a train space anywhere in the southeast without climate control isn't a good idea. Not only will you deal with moisture, insects, temps that will affect your trains, you will also have to deal with how all of those conditions are on you. Sweating or freezing in a garage is not enjoyable and will make it hard for you to go out there to enjoy your hobby. I lived in the Orlando area for a few years and I can tell you it gets very uncomfortable in a garage there. We recently moved into our new house. I designed and built it myself. One of the features my wife absolutely insisted on was a dedicated train room. I have a 16x21 room just for my trains and hobbies. I am very glad to have that space. Since you are having your house built to your specs, I would highly recommend a dedicated train room. It will make your hobby time much more convienent and enjoyable.

Another consideration if you are designing and building from scratch is get as large a room as possible. Then add a few feet!  Our trains require a lot of room to fully enjoy. We used to joke that we really need a small aircraft hanger for O gauge. Actually, there is an airport community north of you in New Port Richie that is 40 years old and another SE of Ocala called Love's Landing - might be something to consider. Lol

The typical double garage is really too small for 3 rail O unless you are happy with tight curves and limited trackage. Even 10 extra feet will make a huge difference over time.

@PRR8976 posted:

Kevin,

I didn't see what the outcome was in your situation. Did you built a layout yet, if so where and how did it work out?

I hope to retire in 2-3 years. Ocala Fl. and Upstate New York are on the short list if we move, Upstate NY is probably most likely.

Tom

If you expect to move to Upstate New York plan to bring a lot of money for property and especially school taxes, which are insane. I wish I could afford to move out of Upstate Western NYS. You'll be paying taxes on taxes in this state.